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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Cooked (Swiss) => Topic started by: Revilo on August 30, 2015, 09:30:19 AM
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I've tried Asiago a couple of times but the curds always got stuck in the cheesecloth when pressing :'( I decided to try another hard (ish) cheese and am trying a Mutschli recipe based on Alpkäserei's recipe that Stinky recommended: (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10178.msg75470.html#msg75470 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10178.msg75470.html#msg75470))
Here's what I did:
- Heated 8L raw milk to 35°C
- Added 1/2 tsp TE (not quite sure what type) and waited 5 min
- Added Rennet and waited 60 min (wasn't quite set after the 40 min - maybe the rennet)
- Cut into 1x1cm columns and waited 5 min before stirring for another 5 min
- Whisked the curds for 10 min to coffee bean size
- Stirred for another 20 min
- Slowly heated from the then 34°C to 38°C over 30 min
- Filled into the hoop
- Pressed with 2.5kg-15min, 5kg-30min, 7.5kg-1hr, 10kg-4hrs
- Left in form overnight without weights
- Brined the next morning for 6 hours (flipped over half way)
I ordered some Plyban cheesecloths but they seem to be stuck in customs and I just pressed the curds in the mold. It seems to have turned out alright :D
The image is of the cheese after brining. I am thinking of washing the rind now with a red wine (or port-because that's all i can find at the moment)
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If you don't have wine, I'd stick with plain brine until you do. Not sure about what port would do.
Have you tried dipping the cheesecloth into the whey before pressing? That gets them as acidic and less likely to stick.
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I tried soaking the cloth in whey beforehand but it just seemed to make it worse. I still vacuum packed it, hoping it'll still be edible in some way.
I managed to get some red wine so will make the mix you suggested: 300ml water, 60ml red wine and 40g salt.
Will wipe one side of the cheese everyday with cosmetic pads ^-^
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A brush really works better... that way you're able to get the layer of schmier really worked around. It's also the way the Swiss do it.
But you can try this on this cheese, and try the other on a different cheese, and see which you prefer. It seems to work for Boof.
Either way, looking forward to seeing what happens.
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In the end I got a brush, because bits of cotton kept getting pulled off by the sticking out bits from the pressing. The brush has been working well so far. I got some of the black cat's hair moulds on the second day, but they got rubbed off.
Not quite sure how long I should keep washing it for. I have enough mix for 2-3 more washes, then I might let it dry out for a few days and then vacuum pack it and let ripen for a month or 2.
The picture is after washing for about 12 days
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Reuse the same wash. Just dip a little bit out, don't get too much on there, brushy brushy, and put it back in the fridge.
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How long would you suggest washing it for still?
It's smelling a lot like wine with some kind of cheese smell that I can't really make out yet... but it's not bad ^-^
Thanks for all the help by the way. Have a cheese :D
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Thanks for the cheese.
I generally follow Alp's pattern of every day for two weeks, then start doing it a few times a week, and then twice a week, and then once a week, and then once every few weeks if necessary.
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Just an update on the cheese... (been ripening for about 40 days now). Might keep it going another month or so.
It has become really slimy and kind of sinks into the rack that it is resting on. It's also developed quite a smell which I can't really tell if it's good or bad... :P
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At 40 days or so it should be a little more dry
I would let the surface dry by leavening it out from the cave a little bit each day or lowering the humidity in the cave a little or patting it dry with paper towels .
You could do all of the above
From hear on in only wash if you get mold issues and or cracking
If you get cracking build up a really good thick smear and brush it over into the crack its will then dry and seal it.
I found a mini sized brush just like alps larger round washing brush at a shoe repair store , it is the brush used for putting on shoe polish and for Buffing it off.
It worked fantastic for building a really good smear
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Hate to be a killjoy but that does NOT look good. I would toss that and try again. None of my swiss' looked like that.
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Don't toss it. First try letting it dry off, if that doesn't work, then try cutting into it a little bit and seeing what it tastes like.
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I agree do not toss it . So many things can cause a cheese to look a little off to us on the forum including something as small lighting when the picture is taken .
A cheap brush could leave a little dye on the cheese , a dark mold could have been rubbed into the smear and colored it , I am sure there are many other potential causes .
The worst case is that the rind does not taste very good
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I got some of the black cat's hair moulds on the second day, but they got rubbed off.
This could quite possibly be black mucor mold. I believe the one described as "black cat hair" is the most dangerous. I suggest you message one of the pros about this as it could well be a serious health concern. I could be totally wrong on this but I wouldn't want to bet someones health on it and there are plenty of experts on here to consult with.
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I do not think that the black cats hair mold is bad for you I think it just adds off flavor if left to get out of control.
Had some on one of my tommes once when I went away for a week. Just rubbed it flat and it died off.
If you get this dried off on the surface it should start to look a lot better in about 3 weeks or so .
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I got some of the black cat's hair moulds on the second day, but they got rubbed off.
This could quite possibly be black mucor mold. I believe the one described as "black cat hair" is the most dangerous. I suggest you message one of the pros about this as it could well be a serious health concern. I could be totally wrong on this but I wouldn't want to bet someones health on it and there are plenty of experts on here to consult with.
This is true, but generally I don't think it's a huge problem on cheese rinds? You'll want to probably cut off the rind, but you'd do that anyway. And they didn't take over so you should be fine. Were they all black or white with black tips?
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Thanks for all the replies :D
After the first few days I had a small tuft of all black 'cat hairs' on it, so it is possible that some of the mould is still present. I found a french website that has lots of info on cheese defects (http://www.accident-fromagerie.fr/spip.php?article6 (http://www.accident-fromagerie.fr/spip.php?article6)). Sadly I can't speak much french, but it didn't look too much like the pictures displayed under 'Mucor'.
It also has a somewhat blue cheese smell, which may also be possible because I have had blues in the cheese cave.
I will let it dry out now and hopefully be able to cut off the rind when it gets to that point
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I've been away for the last few days, but left the lid of the plastic box slightly open to try and dry it out slowly. I think it dried out too quickly though and it now has a crack on the surface. It doesn't smell too appealing either really :-[
Any tips? Was thinking of cutting off all the rind and hoping that the remaining cheese is somehow edible... this might be a lost cause though ;D
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How do you feel about it? Describe the rind. How does it look, feel and smell?
You can't continue to age it like it is if you cut off the rind. From brining onwards, you've prepared this cheese to have a good outer rind that can withstand other organisms. You could cut off the rind and wax it.
Oh, just realized I said cut off the rind. Sorry about that. I meant when you cut the rest of it, just trim off the rind bits.
If you think you could keep aging as is, rub some lard, or butter into the crack. If you don't, you could try trying it. Insert a peeler into the cheese maybe halfway, twist, try the center bit, put the rest in and seal with lard or butter. Then judge if you should wait or cut it now. How long has it been aging?
(http://www.thequestingfeast.com/images/2006_12_19VegetablePeeler_000.jpg)
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I agree with stinky the crack means you have to take action. He is right taste the core now , if it is okay to eat ( has some flavor ) , cut it in half through the crack and vacuum seal the other half to age out longer or wax and age .
If it needs more aging you could do any of the above but also as a whole cheese it is large enough to wrap and lard
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I think the title of this post is misleading. I agree with Al...this isn't a Swiss cheese in the truest sense. It's a washed rind alpine.
Several observations:- The tub housing the cheese contains a reservoir of liquid. This could be a source of contamination. Should be dry.
- Unless it's stainless steel, cheese shouldn't rest on steel.
- The cheese appears not just moist...but WET. The edge of the rind appears crumbly. Should be wiped but not soaked.
Meine zwei Pfennigs. ;)
Since it has dried out significantly, I would vacuum bag it. That will pull the rind tighter, possibly closing that gap.
-Boofer-
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Thanks again everyone. Have a cheese :D
I took your advice and tasted the cheese by coring a bit out. It was mildly funky (if that makes sense). I find it hard to judge really; I guess it was good if it's meant to taste like that and vice versa :-\ a bit of placebo effect or something. I did notice the growth of PR on the sticking out bits from the press (possibly a good sign if it's the source of the colour)
I then buttered in the cracks and vacuum sealed it. It's been aging a total 50 days now...
Several observations:- The tub housing the cheese contains a reservoir of liquid. This could be a source of contamination. Should be dry.
- Unless it's stainless steel, cheese shouldn't rest on steel.
- The cheese appears not just moist...but WET. The edge of the rind appears crumbly. Should be wiped but not soaked.
- You're right. I was trying to keep the humidity up, but I suppose I should be using clean water for that.
- It is stainless steel. I used to have galvanized steel which was rubbish. Stainless steel is so much nicer (worth the extra cost imo)
- I think I need to improve the aging container. The top was very wet and slimy whereas the area where the crack appeared was really dry
Thanks Boofer, and I wouldn't call it a Swiss either ;D
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For next time around .... You only need to keep the lid on or even slightly ajar to keep the humidity up . A slight fog on the lid surface shows good humidity.
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Yeah, if the surface is looking wet take the water out. Rule of thumb.