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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Rennet Surface White Mold (Penicillium candidum) Ripened => Topic started by: StuartDunstan on July 15, 2015, 10:58:24 PM
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Has anyone done a camembert/brie using only geotrichum candidum, and no penicillium candidum? I'm reding David Asher's new book Art of Natural Cheesemaking, and his recipe for camembert only uses geo. I'm just wondering what that would look/taste like. I had a search of the forums, but couldn't really find anything. Cheers!
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I have done crottin style cheeses a few times using only Geotrichum. The rind gets all wrinkly, which I love ;D and the aroma of the aging cheese tends to be quite potent-not really in a good way :o. I find the flavor and texture to be delicious, though. I also use raw goat's milk rather than cow's milk. I say experiment and have some fun.
Susan
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On the weekend I decided to try out David Asher's technique for cam/brie from his book The Art of Natural Cheesemaking. Unfortunately, I haven't got hold of any kefir grains yet, so I'm just using regular cultures. But I followed the rest of his recipe, which differs quite a lot to my usual one.
The main differences between David's recipe and the one I usually follow are:
1. Only geotrichum candidum is used to ripen the cheese. No fuzzy white penicillium candidum.
2. Surface salting of the cheese instead of brining. (I haven't salted a cheese since I did my cheesemaking course over a year ago, so hopefully I get it right!).
3. You make a wash by taking your leftover whey and adding salt, and then wash the cheese every second day (from memory) for a week. This encourages the geo and discourages everything else.
I only made a batch of two, as I didn't want to be wasting milk if it didn't work out. Below you can see the cheeses just after I have rubbed some salt onto them. It was interesting to watch the effect the salt had on the shape of the cheese as it pulled moisture of it. They kind of went a bit wonky, with the top contracting more than the bottom. This has mostly been corrected now after a flip, but the sides are still rounded and bulging out a little bit. In comparison, when I brine a cam they tend to retain their shape and straight sides and just shrink a bit. I'm guessing this is because the salt is evenly distributed around it.
The cheeses have now been moved into my cheese fridge at 10C, and I'll commence the washing tonight after I get home from work.
I have a feeling these guys are going to take longer to ripen than a cam that is covered in p.candidum. David mentions 2 months in the book, which is double the time that it takes cams made using my usual recipe to ripen! On the negative side, that means it'll take longer before I can eat them. On the positive, I'm thinking the longer ripening might allow more complexity of flavour to develop before it hits the gooey stage. Only time will tell.
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First whey/salt wash done. Still can't believe how wonky these cheeses look! My surface salting game seriously needs some work.
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They look great! I can't wait to see if it works out.
:)
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I have a couple of brie sized malemberts in my fridge at the moment. The geo took off brilliantly, but not so much PC. They stink to high heavens, but they look good. Good luck with yours. Have a cheese from me.
Shane
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They look super :D So far I have only used Penicillium Candidum when making Camemberts. Got some Geo delivered so will try that out in the next ones. Interesting to see what happens with only Geo :D
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It's now been 3 weeks since these went into the cheese cave (AKA wine fridge). With my usual brie recipe, they only spend 2 weeks in the cheese cave, then go into the normal fridge. But David Asher's recipe calls for 4 weeks. I decided to pull the pin early with these ones, as the sides of the cheese are getting very soft, and I'm worried they'll get too liquid while the centre is still firm. So into the fridge they go!
The smell of these is quite a bit stronger than my regular bries: definitely much more funkier. Also, three small pink spots of mould appeared on the cheeses, the first time I've ever had this happen. Have dabbed the spots with vinegar, so hopefully they won't spread. You can one on the cheese in the background of the photo below, though it is a little blurry. Anyone have experience with this pink mould? Oddly, the geo seems to be growing right over the top of it, so maybe it's already dead.
Anyway, next update will be in a few weeks when they're done (unless something goes drastically wrong!).
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Well, it's been six weeks now since these Geo-only cams were made. We had a bunch of friends over this weekend for a housewarming lunch, so figured it was a good opportunity to crack the cheeses. My only regret is that I only made two! One and a half were completely devoured. Thankfully, I managed to slip the last half back into the fridge to enjoy with my wife later on.
So yes, was a great success. As I mentioned in my previous post, the aroma is more pungent than a standard fuzzy white cam. And the centre is very oozy indeed, but not so oozy that it's at risk of completely falling apart. It really holds together quite well. The flavour itself was wonderful and creamy, despite not adding any extra cream. It probably could have done with a little bit more salt, but that's just due to my poor surface salting skills. The pink mould (if that's what it was) never advanced beyond the inital couple of spots, and while they didn't disappear, the Geo completely grew over the top.
One of my friends brought over a jar of kefir grains, so I am eager to try this recipe again using only the culture from the kefir and encouraging the natural Geo do its thing, as David Asher talks about in his book.
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That's pretty!
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Hi Stuart, this is a 2 week old Camembert using only kefir, no additives. Followed the recipe and affinage (washing in whey brine from the make) from David Ashers book but used 2 litres of p/h milk. I used my experience from conventional Cam making and allowed the rennet to sit for 90 mins, thought curds were a bit soft after 60mins also added 1.5ml calcium chloride at renneting, also had minimal stirring allowing the curds to firm up for 15-20 mins before ladling into a conventional plastic cam mould.As you can see the geo is just starting to take hold, whereas a normal cam would be covered in white mould. I'm going to leave it unwrapped for at least another week to see how it develops, one thing is the different smell from p.candidum much more pungent not so much that mushrooms smell.
I used p/h milk because that's what I had and wasn't prepared to waste money buying anything special, I used 60ml 2day old kefir as per the book and I got a few grains mixed in which came out at renneting
Don't know if I could support some of the things in the book but was interested to see how it went to make cheese in an alternative way.
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Hi Stuart, this is a 2 week old Camembert using only kefir, no additives. Followed the recipe and affinage (washing in whey brine from the make) from David Ashers book but used 2 litres of p/h milk. I used my experience from conventional Cam making and allowed the rennet to sit for 90 mins, thought curds were a bit soft after 60mins also added 1.5ml calcium chloride at renneting, also had minimal stirring allowing the curds to firm up for 15-20 mins before ladling into a conventional plastic cam mould.As you can see the geo is just starting to take hold, whereas a normal cam would be covered in white mould. I'm going to leave it unwrapped for at least another week to see how it develops, one thing is the different smell from p.candidum much more pungent not so much that mushrooms smell.
I used p/h milk because that's what I had and wasn't prepared to waste money buying anything special, I used 60ml 2day old kefir as per the book and I got a few grains mixed in which came out at renneting
Don't know if I could support some of the things in the book but was interested to see how it went to make cheese in an alternative way.
Wow, that looks wonderful! The difference in smell between a geo rind and a p.candidum rind was what I noticed too. Please post some photos and tasting notes when it comes time to try it! I'm quite intrigued and would love to see how it turns out.
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Stuart, noticed your cheeses sort collapsed after salting, I've found the best way from previous experience on cam making is to salt the cheese top and sides then place back in the mold, then after about 4 hours turn the cheese and salt the top and sides and place back in mold for another 4 hours, if it looks like they're still too soft turn and leave overnight, then try again eventually they will drain and firm up nicely then you can leave out to dry off. The first time I made a double cream Brie thought it was going to end up a pancake disaster but by placing back in the mold and draining more it turned out great.
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A beautiful looking cheese, Stuart. It's certainly got me drooling.
Please accept a cheese from me.
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but not so oozy that it's at risk of completely falling apart. It really holds together quite well.
Would you describe it as "very soft taffy"? I've had some Tallegio that looks like yours with that oozy but not flowing character.
Good job, Stuart. Have a cheese.
-Boofer-
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but not so oozy that it's at risk of completely falling apart. It really holds together quite well.
Would you describe it as "very soft taffy"? I've had some Tallegio that looks like yours with that oozy but not flowing character.
Good job, Stuart. Have a cheese.
-Boofer-
Thanks Boofer. We don't have taffy here in Australia, so I'm not really sure how it compares. But that photo above was taken after cutting it and leaving it out for 10 minutes to warm up, and that's when it started to ooze out a little. Before that it was a pretty clean cut. Overall it was a consistency that I'm veyr happy with, as I love a good oozy cheese!
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Stuart, noticed your cheeses sort collapsed after salting, I've found the best way from previous experience on cam making is to salt the cheese top and sides then place back in the mold, then after about 4 hours turn the cheese and salt the top and sides and place back in mold for another 4 hours, if it looks like they're still too soft turn and leave overnight, then try again eventually they will drain and firm up nicely then you can leave out to dry off. The first time I made a double cream Brie thought it was going to end up a pancake disaster but by placing back in the mold and draining more it turned out great.
Thanks Savu. Might have to give that a try. Normally I just use a brine, which always gives nice, consistent results. But I've decided to start surface salting, as brines seem to use up a lot of salt, and I never really make enough cheese to warrant keeping the brine for multiple uses.
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My 2 litres brine is nearly 2 years old, after using I filter it back into a pot then bring to a boil add water and salt to bring it back to 2 litres saturated solution then when cool put into an old milk bottle and keep in the dark at the bottom of a cupboard. The day before I need it I boil again to be sure it's got no bugs then cool overnight if needed sooner in the fridge.
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but not so oozy that it's at risk of completely falling apart. It really holds together quite well.
Would you describe it as "very soft taffy"? I've had some Tallegio that looks like yours with that oozy but not flowing character.
Good job, Stuart. Have a cheese.
-Boofer-
I once had some triple cream Brie that had that exact texture. It held together, but stuck to things and kind of stretched when you tried to take it off and you had to wipe the counter.
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Stuart, update to Kefir only Camembert, here it is at exactly 28 days just starting to ooze with the centre still firm, taste is like Camembert but definitely stronger cheesy flavour, remarkable creamy mouthfeel, was expecting it to be more like a lactic acid cheese with that sharp sour tang. We had a 2 thumbs up from the rest of the family only comment why didn't you make 2. For a first time using 2 litres p/h milk an excellent result, will make some more this weekend using raw milk if I can be bothered driving a distance to get it otherwise it will be store bought cream line (4%) and maybe might even try a double cream version adding extra cream.
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Wow, that looks great Savu! I acquired some kefir grains recently, so I'm definitely going to give David's recipes for cams and blues a try. Cheers!
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I am so happy to see people using his book to make cheese with kefir! I am a total beginner, and I must confess I have never really eaten cambert or any of the oozy cheeses, please tell me what they taste like, how you use them (crackers, fruit, plain) and if it is an acquired taste! LOL I am making a bloomy rind cheese as we speak aged in half pint jam jars. Seemed like an easy one for me to cut my teeth on but wow does it have a strong smell! Does that go away and does it taste like that?? Since I bought his book and started reading it I have become obsesses with cheese making, plus I have dairy goats so I am getting 1 1/2 gallons of milk a day just with once a day milking. I just couldn't deal with 3 gallons a day any longer. I raised calves this year and my chickens love it but man do I hate to waste it! I give some to my friends but I am still swimming in milk. Almost time to dry them up so I want to make as much as I can before then. Any insights on your favorite cheeses to make and eat will be much appreciated!!