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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Semi-Hard "Sweet" Washed Curd => Topic started by: Cartierusm on December 13, 2008, 07:09:59 PM
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Anyone ever had Midnight Moon? It's goat milk and you can get it at Mollie Stones. Best cheese I've ever had. Just wondering how it's made.
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What does it look like? Is it a round cheese with a white mould? Just thinking moon, round and white. Just wondering whether it might be a nic name for a St Maure, which is a goat cheese, made in a similar fashion to a brie/camembert.
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There's some info here (http://www.cheesestoresl.com/cheese/Goat/review_midnightmoon.html) and more here (http://www.cowgirlcreamery.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MMOON).
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Thanks CH that's looks tempting to try. Although was doing a bit a speed reading and thought it said the it had a flavour similar to salted camel ?? Had to read that bit again. Salted caramel sounded much better. :D
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Salted Camel. Hmm
I read that to my 17 year old son. He is still laughing. He won't tell me why.
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Maybe because that's what he thinks it does taste like??
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I know this thread is old but thought I would add my bit... we can get midnight moon here in Australia too. My understanding is that it is an aged Gouda style cheese. It is actually made in Holland and imported into the US, (then exported here I guess). I have know idea of the cultures used but the flavour profile suggests lots of adjunct cultures.
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It's not double imported with a hop to US first. It's shipped directly. And the culture blend is mostly classic DL gouda culture with multiple undefined strains. That's why you get the flavor intensity, same as you do in a cow gouda. There are a few similar cheeses out there with very close flavor profiles.
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Necro posting.
I came across this cheese at my cheese and wine specialty shop Hops and Grapes (http://hopsandgrapesonline.com) and found it pleasant. One of, if not my favorite cheese is Manchego, and this is remarkably similar. I found this particular brand to have a slightly creamier texture/flavor, slightly nutty, with that distinct goat undercurrent (I hate to relate it to wet dog but lets call it what it is). Hard to say if it's the process or the milk (sheep vs goat) or more likely both that allows to distinguish between the two.
http://www.cypressgrovechevre.com/cheeses/creamline/midnight-moon.html (http://www.cypressgrovechevre.com/cheeses/creamline/midnight-moon.html)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HY7i4iikFYo/ThBgctr8i_I/AAAAAAAAB_4/SMUzA0DkBik/s1600/thumb_CGC-MidnightMoon.jpg)
If nothing else, it's slightly cheaper than the Manchego that I purchase at the same shop.
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It's not double imported with a hop to US first. It's shipped directly. And the culture blend is mostly classic DL gouda culture with multiple undefined strains. That's why you get the flavor intensity, same as you do in a cow gouda. There are a few similar cheeses out there with very close flavor profiles.
Hi Linux boy. I have been persevering with my washed curd gouda style cheese made from goats milk, aka 'midnight moon' but I am disappointed in the results. Texture is fine but the flavour is just not there. It's got a slight coconuty flavour but that is all really. I am using MA4001, PLA, KL, TA61 for de-bittering and some LBC81 to hasten ripening. I set at 31oC. Cut at 3x flocculation, replace about 30% of whey with water and cook to 38 over half an hour. Whey off at pH 6.35ish and hoop. At 3 months it tastes good but nothing like the intensity of a midnight moon...
Any suggestions?
Thanks.
Paul.
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One, age it out for a year. Two, change your cultures. As I wrote, midnight moon is a DL culture with multiple undefined strains, and adjuncted with what tastes like helveticus, paracasei, rhamnosus, or a blend to me. MA4001 is a D type with specified strains, modified with TA for acidification. Wrong culture. Get a classic gouda culture where you have all four (again, DL type) and make sure it's undefined strains. Hansen's CHN 11 IIRC, FD, probat, etc can all be used. And then adjunct it with bacilli. Strain selection is absolutely crucial here. You can't use something like LH100. You have to use a strain specifically formulated to give you the flavor profile you want. All the houses have these strains. Ask your local shop what they recommend for a sweet and nutty profile. Something like Danisco's FLAV series tend to work. LBC81 is fine for faster paste development and bitterness control and some flavor development, but it is not like helveticus or specific acidophilus flavors. One of danico's proprietary FLAVs, for example, their acidilacti, produces a sweet note.
I would spend a bit of money, get 4-6, make small wheels, and figure out which ones work for you. It's difficult to predict exactly what the milk interaction will be, so go through a round of trials and see what you like.
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Thanks very much.
FD = Flora Danica?
Back to my cheese text books to pull all of what you said together - there are hours of digesting there!
Thanks for being generous with you knowledge.
I'll keep you posted on how I go.
Paul.
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No huge need to understand everything. Change it up to a multi-species undefined culture, and get 4-6 of the various bacilli adjuncts, like you find in the FLAV series, and experiment until you find something that works. No recipe changes to temp or process.
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Thanks.
Just made a batch. Flora Danica, Flav54 (thats what I had on hand) plus some LBC81 and TA61.
I'll taste the first ones in 3 months and let you know how I went.
Paul.
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... by the whey...
I was going to brine them, air dry for 24hrs, mature at 12oC, rub with macadamia oil every second day for 3 weeks, then vacuum seal and mature at 4oC for 12 months. (if I can wait that long!)
Maca oil is plentiful and cheap here and has the same stability as olive oil
Thanks.
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Thanks very much.
FD = Flora Danica?
Back to my cheese text books to pull all of what you said together - there are hours of digesting there!
Thanks for being generous with you knowledge.
I'll keep you posted on how I go.
Paul.
Hi Linuxboy.
I've been getting my adjunct cultures together and doing some research. They seem to lead to the development of 'umami' flavours through proteolysis. What I am now interested to know is how people/companies decide which adjuncts to use, which combinations and quantities. It even gets murkier when I realised that each lactobacillus can have different strains which can result in different flavour profiles. In terms of commercially available adjuncts (plantarum, helvetica, rhamnosus, paracasei) I guess it is just a matter of trial and error over time to see what flavour profiles develop. Or is this information already documented somewhere? Thanks for all of your help. I have a lot of respect for people who are generous with their knowledge.
Paul.
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They seem to lead to the development of 'umami' flavours through proteolysis.
This is one small part of the biochemistry, but absolutely, yes. In truth, you can craft the exact flavor of cheese you want by balancing make parameters with strains and their endopeptidases (for most lactobacilli). Even possible to screen for strain characteristics through DNA markers.
What I am now interested to know is how people/companies decide which adjuncts to use
This part is mostly art, driven by a solid scientific backbone. Isolates are screened for properties that are desirable, then banked, then sometimes enzymes are extracted for a model cheese, or sometimes cheeses undergo prototyping in small form factors. You also have guys like me, and way more geeky than me, who can take a theoretical model based on enzyme types and predict flavor formation for a cheese, or at least predict sensory attributes. It's quite a bit of R&D.
combinations and quantities
This part is easier. You figure out your cheese attributes in the model cheese, and do predictive/combinatorial analytics given the attribute constraints and the enzymatic reactions. Most often, it falls in a few categories. Backbone for acidification, and enzyme types for texture and flavor. Where it becomes very tough is predicting synergies for flavor balance... and trial and error takes care of that.
It even gets murkier when I realised that each lactobacillus can have different strains which can result in different flavour profiles.
Doesn't stop there, they can mutate, and you have many co-factors influencing acidification rate and byproduct (therefore flavor) formation. For example, PAB-LAB interactions, or S thermophilus/Helveticus interactions. Basically, waste products from one can feed another, and you get into systems synergies. Moreover, food source and stress factors also influence flavor.
I guess it is just a matter of trial and error over time to see what flavour profiles develop.
There's quite a bit of that. But there are classic approaches, too, like aduncting DL with a single strain, or adjuncting cheddar with helveticus, or using veggie rennet and adjuncting with helveticus and rhamnosus to help with bitterness control.
Or is this information already documented somewhere?
Strain-specific details are available from the major houses. For this cheese specifically, I think it is a NIZO culture, or CSK, or related to it. Look up CSK (which you likely can't get where you are), they have flavor formation abstracted in this flavor continuum/wheel concept, and they've tried to use their strains to be like a dial. Want more sweetness? Add .2% specific acidophilus and you're there, want less back tannin in the alpine style? back off on helveticus, adjunct with rhamnosus, age cooler, etc. But the info you're looking for, that edge for exact flavor formation, it's generally not available to small producers. In a business where one single strain can account for a 5 million account or for a new product formulation (like parrano or zola), and where research and insight takes a great deal of money, there is little incentive to share key industry insights like that. The worst for me is when some arrogant jerk tries to blow smoke up my arse and doesn't want to give the most basic answer, like it's all some hidden knowledge.
I think you're on a decent start with what you're doing already. Taste it and see, and then tweak to get the flavor you want. If you taste and can't figure out what to do, post here, we'll help. :)
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Jerks blowing smoke anywhere seems a worry to me...
In the absence of lots of money its lots of trials and lots of notes until something hits the mark.
Thanks.
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Nimbin, I am very interested in your results as I am doing a sheep milk Gouda and this mid night moon flavor profile sound very appealing, of course sheep milk will be diferent. The dealer for danisco here in Mexico doesn't carry the FLAV series, I might have to get some from the US in my next trip. keep us posted and thanks for sharing
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no worries...get back to me in 6 months and I tell you what has happened.
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no worries...get back to me in 6 months and I tell you what has happened.
I hate to revive an old thread on my first post but seem to be on the same path you were several years ago. Any chance you remember your results? I'd love to hear all about it.
Reading through the entire thread, I'm quite happy to inderstand most of the lingo except DL- checked the glossary and didn't see that there either. Is it just LD (lacto...diacetyl)?