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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Cooked (Swiss) => Topic started by: Stinky on January 14, 2015, 03:23:45 AM
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I only realized today that it isn't Emmental, but Emmentaler. Makes sense, but there you have it.
Made according to Alp's recipe. (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,11069.0.html) With a lot of help from this thread, (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10338.15.html) but there are several things I noticed afterward that I didn't think about or did wrong. I digress.
2 gallons whole PH milk
1/8 tsp P. shermanii
1/4 tsp. Thermo C
1/2 tsp. CaCl
1/2 tsp. calf rennet
10:23 Added PS and Thermo C to cold milk.
10:26 Started heating milk
10:37 Added 72º tap water, 1 pint
10:48 Milk reached 91º; Added CaCl
10:52 Added rennet
11:31 Cut curds with knife to 1" and then tried to chop the columns with saucers, but they shattered very easily, so I didn't do that very long.
11:39 Cut curds more with hard rubber spatula, started constantly stirring
12:09 Added 1 cup 87º water, started slowly heating curds
12:50 Drained, put in press in a bucket with 96º whey. I think this warrants a little explanation. I was originally going to just put the screw press into the pot, but that didn't fit, same with all the large tupperwares, and the buckets. It sort of fit in this one, but not all the way down and it wasn't a very good situation
12:57 Flipped cheese, 8 lb?
1:05 Flipped cheese, moved press over to the counter and plugged it with a little bit of sterilized play dough, and poured whey in.
1:17 Flipped cheese, 16 lb?
1:43 "
2:23 "
3:28 "
5:55 "
9:00 "
6:45 Flipped cheese, in naked with very little pressure so that it looks nicer and more rounded.
10:30 Removed from press
10:59 Placed in 21% brine for eight hours, removed and put on drying mat
It's shaping up nicely now, getting a decent bit of linens. 2-5 more days, and then into room temperature, where I plan on rubbing it with salt rather than normally washing.
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Looks very nice! :-)
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Yesterday I moved it to the warm phase, and since I was moving it out of the nicely controlled cave I tuck in a little wad of wet paper towel, and then another. Just to be safe. The highest I read the humidity as yesterday on the monitor was 80%, but this morning it was 97% and I had this gnarly blue mold all over the side of the cheese. I didn't take a picture right away since I was in panic mode, but brushed some off. The smear came off as well. Right now I'm thinking rub salt on, and then use the moisture to schmier it around again so the open patches are linensy again?
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How is this cheese doing at this point? Do you have a good swelling? I constantly refine my recipes and for the small batch versions I appreciate input, because I only ever make in large batches.
Regarding the mold, you should just keep washing. Font even wipe it off unless it is very bad. Just wash and it will go away
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How is this cheese doing at this point? Do you have a good swelling? I constantly refine my recipes and for the small batch versions I appreciate input, because I only ever make in large batches.
Regarding the mold, you should just keep washing. Font even wipe it off unless it is very bad. Just wash and it will go away
It's doing... fairly well? The rind has some mold, but not overmuch. I've rubbed it with salt twice a week since the wet period, and the sides are drying out, I think they're good. A bit wrinkled from the overhumidity earlier on.
But it's not swelling. I think it may be a little bit to the side, but not up/down.
See, my problem recently has been not being able to get the acidity down low enough, and this was not an exception. But I'm not sure how to go about this. Ripen the culture longer? But might that not affect the flavor?
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It is still early, I would not be too worried yet. These should have 5 weeks to swell
Regarding acidity, for this cheese you want a high pH. That's why we add water. If the acidity is too high, the PS will not work. That's also why we age it for a week or two cold before putting in the warm room, to stop acidification
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It is still early, I would not be too worried yet. These should have 5 weeks to swell
Regarding acidity, for this cheese you want a high pH. That's why we add water. If the acidity is too high, the PS will not work. That's also why we age it for a week or two cold before putting in the warm room, to stop acidification
Hm, we'll see.
High pH relatively. As in 5.4 range. But a lot of my cheeses have been showing up as around 6. Not sure what's up with that.
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I don't think this one is going to swell, but man does it smell good.
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I love the smell of Swiss when it's aging. I make everybody who comes to the house smell my cheese.
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Hehe, keep your nose away from my cheese! >:(
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If you have pH below 6 before pressing, that is wrong for an emmentaler.
I don't know the numbers exactly because I dont go by pH, but I do know it is above 6
If the pH is lower than that, then you will not get any good growth of PS
So then, that not being the problem I think the next likely place to look is brining. The easiest way to mess up this cheese is to give it too much salt. I've come to the conclusion that I want only to salt my Emmentalers enough to harden the rind. If you do too much more than that, you stunt the PS.
Looking at the steps you posted, I would say that is most likely your problem actually.
How much should you brine this? Really I couldn't say because I don't ever make anything so small. But for two gallons, maybe only 4 hours and no more than 6 to be sure.
Swiss Emmentaler is brined for like two or three days, but also remember those are wheels that weigh like 200 pounds!
I brine 10 pound Mutschlis for 18 hours, and those are much too salty to ever swell at that point.
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I think the pH was higher than that before pressing, but it was also higher than 5.4 or whatever.
Ah, I see. I'll try that differently next time, let you know. I'll go for four hours.
On that note I plan to make Emmentaler an installment cheese, and make a new batch every two months or so.
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Bother. I didn't think about how the humidity would be higher in the warm room than the cold, and so I cracked the lid the same amount as in the warm, moving it to the cold, and it cracked. Not much, but some. And some white mold. ???
And I think it's at the "tough and waxy" stage, on your nice little list. But it's really getting hard. You could knock someone's brains out with this thing, now.
Stage 1: Slippery and wet
Stage 2: Gooey and scary
Stage 3: Slimy and terrifying
Stage 4: Gooey and scary (see, we're loosing our goo)
Stage 5: Soft and waxy
Stage 6: Tough wax
Stage 7: Hard
Stage 8: Harder
Stage 9: Still harder
Stage 10: Really hard
Stage 11: Archaeological curiosity
Stage 12: Diamonds (this is when the cheese really goes up in value)
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White mold is good. If you wash the cheese like Al says, you can grow the white mold all over. The white mold will protect the cheese from other molds. If other mold grows on the white it will just brush off. I try for the white mold all the time.
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Hmm. With my Tilsit, I am getting geo. I could leave it on, which would be easier, or try to keep it off. Obviously I've done something a bit wrong, because Alp always insists that washed rind shouldn't have anything except linens, but I'm not sure if it's worth the bother?
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when developing the rind there should be nothing but native bacterial and yeast growth (or introduced Linens if you like)
The idea here is, we fight down the less desirable growths of mold and yeast that don't look or taste very good.
After the rind has formed and the cheese has settled in, you can allow (and people often do) some mold growth to happen. Typically, for example, Berner Alpkäse will develop a white dusting presumably from geo. Other locations you might get a white mold growth, but the undesirable molds and yeasts will no longer grow
For my cheeses I like to maintain a golden brown rind, so I won't let white mold or geo grow to a very great extent before I wash them. Since I am doing this for business, it's important that my cheese retains a uniform and 'clean' appearance. This means that every wheel needs to get washed once or twice a week.
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I want to make one of these, perhaps next weekend, for a 8 gallon make. Just got in all fresh cultures and shermani for it. Hope I can get it to swell. Yours looks good to this point. I can never get mine to swell but plan on picking Alps brain for this one. Hopefully he can show me the error of my ways. ??? AC4U
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I want to make one of these, perhaps next weekend, for a 8 gallon make. Just got in all fresh cultures and shermani for it. Hope I can get it to swell. Yours looks good to this point. I can never get mine to swell but plan on picking Alps brain for this one. Hopefully he can show me the error of my ways. ??? AC4U
I think my problem is acidity? Not getting it low enough? I'm going to research this more before I make my next one, which will be soon.
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Update.
I gave it a little wash because I realized I was supposed to periodically do that and I haven't been?
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Aaaach, I cut this this morning. It's everything I hoped and more. Sweet, nutty, slightly sharp, lovely. Pictures to come.
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Ah, I haven't put pictures up.
So I'm almost halfway through this wheel and enjoying every bit. I even tried some Swiss Emmental in comparison and it was nowhere near as flavorful. I rather prefer mine to the other, even if it's not an Emmental per se. Or if it is perhaps it has just aged way more because it's much smaller. Quien sabe.
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Looks great!!!! AC4U.
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Yum! Looks excellent. Have a cheese from me too.
Shane
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So, about 4 months aging, right?
That seems to be a satisfying affinage point for a number of my favorites. ;)
I would agree with your opinion on the commercial cheese versus your version...I've had that experience on several occasions myself. 8)
A cheese for your efforts. Nice cheese.
-Boofer-
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Looks delicious! AC4U!
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Great! AC4U. :-)
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Thank you guys! ;D
So, about 4 months aging, right?
That seems to be a satisfying affinage point for a number of my favorites. ;)
I would agree with your opinion on the commercial cheese versus your version...I've had that experience on several occasions myself. 8)
A cheese for your efforts. Nice cheese.
-Boofer-
Yes. I took it out almost the whole 120 days. Almost because I had to leave for a week, but no importa.
What are they? Your favorites.
I just wonder how fast this ages, comparedly.
Thanks!
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Good work, Stinky. AC4U.
Larry
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On the subject of commercial vesus home made,
Something I always remember when visiting Switzerland, they don't sell their good stuff to other countries.
That means the Emmentaler you buy in the US is authentic, but it's not nearly as good as the cheese you can get here.
I have never in my life had any sort of Emmental style cheese that can in any way compare to an 14 month Swiss Emmentaler
The Emmentaler, Gruyere, Appenzeller, etc. are all 400 times better here than what they export.
Don't want to crash your party, just to remind you that Swiss cheese still is king ;)
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Nice. It's a style that's a way down on my list to try in part due to small aging space, but someday.
AC4U
John
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On the subject of commercial vesus home made,
Something I always remember when visiting Switzerland, they don't sell their good stuff to other countries.
That means the Emmentaler you buy in the US is authentic, but it's not nearly as good as the cheese you can get here.
I have never in my life had any sort of Emmental style cheese that can in any way compare to an 14 month Swiss Emmentaler
The Emmentaler, Gruyere, Appenzeller, etc. are all 400 times better here than what they export.
Don't want to crash your party, just to remind you that Swiss cheese still is king ;)
That raises the question of what they do differently...
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I don't really know, other than being a simple issue of quality control,
that is, better cheese is made with better milk, better attention to detail, better care during aging, and is generally sold at an older age.
I think probably, milk quality and aging are the most important issues here.