CheeseForum.org » Forum
GENERAL BOARDS => Introductions => Topic started by: Jay-1 on April 14, 2017, 08:15:48 AM
-
Hi Folks,
I'm a newbie from Tasmania, Ive posted up a question before introducing my self...apologies if i broke protocol, well im in the Nth of Tasmania and has collected and fabricated the gear i need to hopefully make some great cheeses, some have already posted advice in my other post and im very grateful. ok onto making cheese...fingers crossed.
Jay.
-
Hi Jay. Welcome on board. Don't worry too much about the formalities. Just relax and enjoy the cheese.
-
Welcome, Jay! No worries on the order of the posts ... no doubt, being "down under," they just got delivered backwards. Or something like that. :)
-
Thanx for the Welcome awakephd,rawprawn, well ive now made my first cheese, a Colby, took me around 7hrs by the time i last adjusted my final pressing at 3am last night, after 12 hrs of pressing im about to get it out of the press and let it air.
-
Nice !
-
Good looking cheese.
Have a cheese from me for your efforts.
-
after being aired around a day later...
-
Cheese #2 underway, Cheddar, lets see how this goes.
-
Hey Jay... a Cheese to from me for sticking at it until 3 am... Dedication !
I also applaud your making of a press consider the cheese offered here a double cheese. Like light sabres - Every Padawan needs to make their own, several in my case ! Please don't take offense but you may find out that the cheese here will be a little crumbly and a bit tart. Not that there is anything wrong with that as Caerphilly and others are exactly like that. However, there are two conditions that you might have to consider - and one you have already come across - you have to keep tightening the screw to keep it under pressure. And two - that will not be obvious until you cut the cheese open - is that the curds will not be quite merged as you might think.
Pressing does two main things
1. Amalgamate the curds - this might be sort of obvious but, there is an art to it.
2. Help remove the whey - which still contain milk sugars, the food for the cultures - to slow their feeding. This reduces the acid they produce and hence reduces the tartness off the final product.
There is an amazing number of interrelated processes happening at the same time. The value of a good pressing regime tends to be underestimated. Here is a link to my last press I built and there are many others on this site as well. Hint - the Dutch style will allow you to get to bed a little earlier :o
Plans are free... link to the designer in this link
http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14874.0.html (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14874.0.html)
Welcome to the wonderful world of cheese - most of the population have forgotten what real cheese tastes like - we, are trying to wake them up ! Red or Blue Pill !!
Mal
-
Mal, is the design still working well for you? BTW, along with others who have said it, it is nice to see you back!
-
Thanx for the infomation OzzieCheese it looks like a great cheese press, well here is my Cheddar Cheese 12 hours later, i just removed it from the press...now to wait 6-12 mths to see if it's ok.
-
@Andy... Mate this is the best press ever !! it can be as gentle as an evening breeze or as powerful as a cyclone. I've pressed over 180 Kg for my cheddars with the pullys attached and it just kept asking for more... awesome design.
@Jay. Are you going to wax, Bandage or just leave natural?
If bandaging here is how I do it - have wonderful results using this
http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13778.0.html (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13778.0.html)
comes out like this - yes it is funky looking but the gold is in the inside...
http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14913.0.html (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14913.0.html)
- Mal
-
It's getting cloth banded, using lard, so is the Colby. Thanx again for the links on cloth banding.
-
It's a shame you are a bit far away, i have a good supply of fresh rendered lard.
I also have a load of smoked bacon fat which would be worth experimenting with.
Hmm, might have to think about that.
-
Damn you Mr 5ittingDuck! I had to go and look up what rendered lard was...lol's...looks like dripping we used to cook with before all the healthy stuff became fashionable.
-
Ah, memories ;)
For we do not just experiment with cheese here, we also do meat.
Home made Bacon, Salami, sausages and cured meats.
We often have excess back fat to render for lard, and also get the sweet smoked fat from the bacon process.
-
wow, that looks real good... :)
-
Mal, good to hear that the press is still working well for you.
And 5ittingduck - I'm "rendered" speechless ... :)
-
Thanx for the Welcome awakephd,rawprawn, well ive now made my first cheese, a Colby, took me around 7hrs by the time i last adjusted my final pressing at 3am last night, after 12 hrs of pressing im about to get it out of the press and let it air.
I cloth banded this Cheese and coated it with lard last night and i'm over it all ready, It's wax from now on, lard and cloth is too messy not to mention you re visit the mess every time you turn your cheese.
-
Eventually it will be covered with mold, and that will reduce the greasy mess ... :)
-
My first Cheddar cloth banded with lard after it was air dryed for 3 days.
-
They look awesome.. Have a well earned cheese.
--Mal
-
They look awesome.. Have a well earned cheese.
--Mal
Thanx OzzieCheese, dont mind if i do...please have some cheese for the mention.
-
Hobbies all seem to be expensive, I also brew my own beer (better than professionally) made beer, no head aches in the morning unless you way over indulge and fraction of the price of craft beer, now as you all know i'm new to cheese making and have been slowly gavering all the gear to help me make a great cheese, it all adds up, ive built one cheese press and have been thinking about building another using a new jack and press from the bottom up, up, down...same same? right...Mal got me thinking when he posted the links on how he built his last one, what do you think of this idea??
-
using a new jack and press from the bottom up, up, down...same same? right...Mal got me thinking when he posted the links on how he built his last one, what do you think of this idea??
I would only be worried about having to clean all the whey that drains on to the jack mechanism. If you built with the fluid dynamics of the process in mind I don't see why pushing from the bottom would be a problem.
-
In terms of the cheese, it doesn't care if it is pressed from the bottom up rather than the top down. The design may be more complicated due to the need to keep the platform aligned straight as it moves up.
But when you talk about a "new jack," are you talking about using a hydraulic bottle jack? I would strongly caution against this, for several reasons: 1) I'd be concerned about hydraulic fluids getting onto my hands and then to the cheese. (No such thing as a jack that doesn't leak at least a little bit, at least eventually!) 2) How will you measure the amount of force you are applying? (Certainly do-able, with a pressure gauge and appropriate math, but more complications and more opportunities for leaks ... and the typical bottle jack will not have a readily available port to add a gauge.) 3) Hydraulic jacks are really intended to apply 1000's of lbs of force, not the 5-10 you want to start with; it may be quite hard to keep the pressure down even to apply just the 200-300 lbs you'd want at the end of pressing a typical cheddar. (More pressure is not better - if you press too hard, too quickly, you will close up the rind before all the whey has escaped, and even at the end, if you press too hard, you will either get cheese squishing up around the follower and/or split your mold.) 4) If you just use a typical bottle jack, the pressure you apply to the cheese will dissipate as soon as the cheese compresses. So you will need, not only a pressure gauge, but also a pressure regulator and a pump that can continue to pump hydraulic fluid to maintain the pressure as the cheese compresses. Again, more opportunities for leaks and mess, not to mention you're now starting to talk about a good bit of expense.
Rather than a hydraulic jack, you will be MUCH better off using a pneumatic cylinder. Leaks are not a problem (so long as you are using clean air), and pressure regulators are inexpensive and readily available - though the less expensive, the less precise it will be. You will need to do some math to figure out how much force is applied to the ram for a given psi of air pressure - basically multiply the air psi by πr², where r is the radius of the pneumatic cylinder. But if you go with a pneumatic cylinder, there is no good reason to put it at the bottom; much easier to mount it at the top and press down. The only complication in going this route is having an air compressor at hand to supply the pressure; small compressors are readily available, run on 110v, and can be had for not too much money (under $100 if you go with a cheapie from Harbor Freight) ... but they are NOISY when they run. Really, really noisy. So if you're setting this up inside, this may be an issue.
-
In terms of the cheese, it doesn't care if it is pressed from the bottom up rather than the top down. The design may be more complicated due to the need to keep the platform aligned straight as it moves up.
But when you talk about a "new jack," are you talking about using a hydraulic bottle jack? I would strongly caution against this, for several reasons: 1) I'd be concerned about hydraulic fluids getting onto my hands and then to the cheese. (No such thing as a jack that doesn't leak at least a little bit, at least eventually!) 2) How will you measure the amount of force you are applying? (Certainly do-able, with a pressure gauge and appropriate math, but more complications and more opportunities for leaks ... and the typical bottle jack will not have a readily available port to add a gauge.) 3) Hydraulic jacks are really intended to apply 1000's of lbs of force, not the 5-10 you want to start with; it may be quite hard to keep the pressure down even to apply just the 200-300 lbs you'd want at the end of pressing a typical cheddar. (More pressure is not better - if you press too hard, too quickly, you will close up the rind before all the whey has escaped, and even at the end, if you press too hard, you will either get cheese squishing up around the follower and/or split your mold.) 4) If you just use a typical bottle jack, the pressure you apply to the cheese will dissipate as soon as the cheese compresses. So you will need, not only a pressure gauge, but also a pressure regulator and a pump that can continue to pump hydraulic fluid to maintain the pressure as the cheese compresses. Again, more opportunities for leaks and mess, not to mention you're now starting to talk about a good bit of expense.
Rather than a hydraulic jack, you will be MUCH better off using a pneumatic cylinder. Leaks are not a problem (so long as you are using clean air), and pressure regulators are inexpensive and readily available - though the less expensive, the less precise it will be. You will need to do some math to figure out how much force is applied to the ram for a given psi of air pressure - basically multiply the air psi by πr², where r is the radius of the pneumatic cylinder. But if you go with a pneumatic cylinder, there is no good reason to put it at the bottom; much easier to mount it at the top and press down. The only complication in going this route is having an air compressor at hand to supply the pressure; small compressors are readily available, run on 110v, and can be had for not too much money (under $100 if you go with a cheapie from Harbor Freight) ... but they are NOISY when they run. Really, really noisy. So if you're setting this up inside, this may be an issue.
All very good points! I may have to re think this, after all gravity,leverage and weight will apply a constant downwards pressure naturally...back to the drawing board. Thanx for your input folks.
-
:) Another cheese underway, first pressing of a Sage Derby Cheese, will post another photo when its fully formed.
-
3 hrs on, notice the compression of the cheese.
-
I'm excited to see this one
-
and here it is, fresh out of the press...ta da...my Sage Derby Cheese.
-
Congratulations on a great looking cheese, as well as (belatedly) for your cloth bound cheddar.
Have another cheese for your efforts.
-
Looks great. Have a cheese on me!
-
Wax coated heading for the cheese cave... taste test in 6-8 weeks
-
Another cheese Jay for your cheese and "Mr. Smiley Face" in the background :)
-
Here comes the dumb question, why do we have to turn our maturing cheese, remember i'm a newbie and just follow the recipe and how they say to mature it? (hard hat) is on...lol's
-
My understanding is that the denser components of the cheese tend to settle to the bottom over time and that turning is to keep a uniform composition.
-
My understanding is that the denser components of the cheese tend to settle to the bottom over time and that turning is to keep a uniform composition.
Thanx for answering, after pressing you would think it would be uniformed and consistant.
-
Hmm, I didn't think it was necessarily components in the cheese (unless perhaps a soft cheese), but more the overall shape of the cheese, especially before the rind sets up - as in, especially with a somewhat softer cheese like a Gouda, you can get elephant foot - ??
-
Hmm, I didn't think it was necessarily components in the cheese (unless perhaps a soft cheese), but more the overall shape of the cheese, especially before the rind sets up - as in, especially with a somewhat softer cheese like a Gouda, you can get elephant foot - ??
k.. I'll bite, elephants foot refers to the bulberous shape that a cheese can form?? right...hard hat back on...lol's
-
>:D I cracked and tasted my first cheddar way before it's time...definitely a cheese but extremely mild at the momet...after my taste and curiousity quencher I wax coated it in four pieces and weighed around 600 grams per block, so i can taste with out disturbing the rest of the wheel at intervals.
-
Yes, elephant's foot refers to the shape. (Fortunately not the taste ... !)
I have found that my cheddars take a good 6 months to mature; before that, they are disappointing. Note that this is referring to a true cheddar, not a semi-in-the-cheddar-family cheese like a Lancashire, which has a lot more moisture in the cheese.
-
I wax coated it in four pieces
You've got enough wax to open a candle factory on those. I am very fickle with my wax application because it is stupid expensive and buying less leaves me more room to buy other cheese stuff. They look cool with the way you did it though. Probably more durable too.
-
I wax coated it in four pieces
You've got enough wax to open a candle factory on those. I am very fickle with my wax application because it is stupid expensive and buying less leaves me more room to buy other cheese stuff. They look cool with the way you did it though. Probably more durable too.
I tried to do three coats, but yeah there well coated. I do like the feel of wax compared to the greasy feel of cloth banded.
-
I wax my full wheels and vacuum seal the quarters when I cut them and want to age longer.
-
I wax my full wheels and vacuum seal the quarters when I cut them and want to age longer.
I've still got to get a vacuum sealer...
-
I've still got to get a vacuum sealer...
I love mine; Best cheese related purchase I have made for sure.
-
Yup, definitely the best.
-
This is my Colby in the cheese cave, some how I think it's grown a Elephants foot...tasting time soon, so i will know if its ok.
-
Today I made a Cotswold Cheese, with onions and chives, here are some photos of my effort...me mixing the curds and whey for what seemed to be forever, my press being sterilised and the Cotswold Cheese in the press for 24 hrs...
-
Fresh out of the press, Cotswold Cheese made in Tasmania...
-
A cheese to you for your excellent result. Made in Tasmania - Gluten Free :).
-
A cheese to you for your excellent result. Made in Tasmania - Gluten Free :).
Thank you Sir...now what cheese to make next??? Wensleydale or Monterey Jack???
-
I would vote for Wensleydale. If you need help you can consult Henry Wensleydale from the old "Cheese Shoppe" skit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3KBuQHHKx0) by Monte Python (a favorite of mine :)).
By the way I did a quick google of Australian Cheese and found this very interesting piece about Ian Fowler (http://www.bayoffirescheese.com.au/about.html), a 13th generation (that's 400 years :o) cheesemaker in St. Helens. Do you know of him?
-
I would vote for Wensleydale. If you need help you can consult Henry Wensleydale from the old "Cheese Shoppe" skit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3KBuQHHKx0) by Monte Python (a favorite of mine :)).
I had never seen that skit. Very funny!
-
I may just wait until I buy my automated stirrer before I make the Wensleydale 2 hrs of continual stirring does not turn me on. I'm in the far north of Tasmania, Ian Fowler is across and down form me on the east coast about 130 miles away, thanks for the links. now what cheese to make???
-
I hadn't seen that skit either. Now I want to try all those varieties ... but like Mr. Wensleydale, my local purveyor of fine comestibles (i.e., Food Lion grocery store) is lacking in much variety ...
-
3 days of drying later, ive got to turn the cheese twice daily until it's touch dry, then vacuum pack it, I'm getting a vacuum packer machine in the next day or so...and you can smell the onions so far.
-
I had to wipe off some white hairy mould today from my Cotswold cheese, I used brine to do this and we went out and purchased my vacuum sealer $59 + $15 for a roll of bags, for my cheeses. I think it will be much cheaper in the long run giving the ongoing cost of wax.
-
Vacuum packed and the cheese cave, 6 weeks until tasting...
-
I entered into the vacuum-bag route with some hesitation ... which quickly and decisively disappeared very quickly. I love it! So convenient for so many reasons. Obviously it provides a different aging experience for the cheese, so certainly may be reasons not to bag a particular variety (and some CANNOT be bagged without stopping the process - e.g., brie or camembert) - but in general I've found it to be an ideal solution for enabling worry-free aging and maximizing the use of the limited "cave" space that I have available.
As a reference point, the longest-aged cheese in a vacuum bag in my cave at the moment is half of a Romano, which as of today is 2 days shy of 26 months old. During that time it has gradually transformed from its initial white color to a deep caramel color, and the taste has developed and intensified. I started using the first quarter from it at about 16 months, and the second quarter I pulled out about 4 months ago; each time I have re-sealed. Based on the relatively slow rate of usage, I anticipate that it will make it to at least 3 years of age before I use the last quarter.
Given the modest size of the make - only 4 gallons, rather than the hundred-gallon-plus required for a true parma/Romano style - there is no way I could have left this unbagged for so long; it would have dried out to be all tough rind and nothing else! When I made it, I did leave it unbagged for a couple of months, to give it plenty of time to breathe and develop a rind, but ever since it's been in the bag.
-
I have found that the longer I let my cheese develop its paste before bagging, the less whey seepage there is. Typically a month or so seems to do the trick.
-
Well today i made some beer and as i keep both my beer and cheese gear together I noticed this mould growing on my bamboo mats in my small boiler?? I did sterilise them before storing them but they still grow mould on them??
-
Play it safe and bin it.
You could probably kill the mould on it but mycilae have been all through it and these cavities will be a channel for harboring nasties and prompting re-infection.
-
Play it safe and bin it.
You could probably kill the mould on it but mycilae have been all through it and these cavities will be a channel for harboring nasties and prompting re-infection.
i've boiled them at least 30 mins and they still look ordinary so i'm going to take your advise and bin them. Thanx.
-
You have to dry them really well before storing , fungus does not grow without moisture .
You killed the spores that were on it with the boiling , then new ones landed and lived the moment it it cooled enough .
-
If you REALLY love shushi mats as part of your cheese making, I would recommend going to Amazon or the like and typing in "plastic sushi mats". There are many available products.
-
Even the plastic mats can grow mold on them if they have organic matter on them.
Fungus needs ( food) organic matter , moisture and oxygen to grow . All the things found in a cheese cave , or a cheese mat put away wet .
I asked a chemist friend why honey will not host bacteria , he said mainly because of the low moisture . Add water to your honey and see how how fast you get fungus .
-
Ok, I'm probly guilty of not drying them properly, lesson learned.
-
Even the plastic mats can grow mold on them if they have organic matter on them.
Fungus needs ( food) organic matter , moisture and oxygen to grow . All the things found in a cheese cave , or a cheese mat put away wet .
I asked a chemist friend why honey will not host bacteria , he said mainly because of the low moisture . Add water to your honey and see how how fast you get fungus .
I keep getting mold on the front of my house, on the vinyl siding and vinyl parts of the porch - both areas that tend to stay shaded (and thus more likely to stay damp) due to the orientation of the house. No organic matter in the vinyl, as far as I know - I'm guessing it must get what it needs just from the rain. All that to agree, emphatically, that mold will grow even on plastic mats!
-
I just wanted to pop in here and say welcome Jay-1. I'm another cheesemaker from Tasmania, but I'm down south. I'm an old forum member who's been absent for a couple of years because busy. You're making some wonderful cheeses for someone just starting.
Having just read through this thread, a few comments:
- I've always had trouble with keeping sushi mats clean. I gave up on them a long time ago. I picked up some plastic cheese mat and have found it to be worth it's weight in gold. I tried plastic needlepoint mats for a while but found they didn't let the whey drain well enough.
- I debated long and hard over whether to get a vacuum system but I'm a total convert. I age the cheeses with a natural rind (using a humidifier in a wine fridge) then vacuum-store the cheeses once I've cut them. If you store the whole cheese in a vacuum bag, check regularly for expressed whey: you may have to open, air and reseal the cheese. I often leave enough of a tail on a bag for a couple of resealings if I suspect that will be necessary. If they cheese has been sitting in whey in a vacuum bag, it often helps to open it and let it air for a couple of days before eating it.
- Vacuum sealing can be an economical way to store cheese. More so if you purchase a bulk lot of bags from ebay. Lots of sellers there giving good deals.
- What milk are you using? I recommend Pyengana's as they don't homogenise and you can guarantee you get it fresh, and if you get in touch with them it's possible to buy in bulk. I"m not sure what northern delivery times are like, but down south I order on a Wednesday, they milk on Thursday and I receive the milk on Friday. Perfect for cheese making.
-
- I debated long and hard over whether to get a vacuum system but I'm a total convert. I age the cheeses with a natural rind (using a humidifier in a wine fridge) then vacuum-store the cheeses once I've cut them. If you store the whole cheese in a vacuum bag, check regularly for expressed whey: you may have to open, air and reseal the cheese. I often leave enough of a tail on a bag for a couple of resealings if I suspect that will be necessary. If they cheese has been sitting in whey in a vacuum bag, it often helps to open it and let it air for a couple of days before eating it.
Good advice. I've done much the same thing Geo waiting for the rind to develop and/or cutting the cheese before vac-bagging. Right now I'm experimenting with Paracoat (with Natimycin) which I think may be a good alternative to waxing and (possibly) vac bagging. My pressed cheeses are still young and it will be next weekend before I start sampling them. I'm planning to try re-coating the exposed paste after cutting the cheese to see how that does (I did this when I cut a Gouda and Manchego round in half for smoking and so far the paste looks good and not drying out). I'm not sure if water-based cheese coatings are available in Tasmania though ???.
-
I can feel a cheese coming on :)
-
First taste of my Sage Derby, very nice indeed...my Wife as my critic enjoyed...hooked in to the plater and rice crackers (peckish) we eat cheese with.
-
Very nice Jay-1 and a cheese for the effort.
-
Very nice Jay-1 and a cheese for the effort.
Thank you John@PC, and todays lunch, Sage Derby on toast...yummo!
-
I've let my Colby cheese mature, it's definitely better than commercially made version imo, however I will not make it again unless the flavour drastically improves with time. On another note I have tasted my Sage Derby and it was full of good flavour...life goes on.