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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Blue Mold (Penicillium roqueforti) Ripened => Topic started by: sashap on August 25, 2015, 03:26:41 PM
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Hello everyone.
Some days ago I started a blue cheese, a Stilton replica. The recipe and the experiences of the members on this (wonderful) forum suggested that the cheese needs to drain in mold at room temperature for 5-7 days, until the blue shows up.
Everything went well for the first two days, the whey was slowly draining, the cheese started to get shape, but on the third day I was greeted by an unpleasant, acid smell (don't know how else to describe it). I took my chances, unmolded the cheese and quickly put it in the fridge at 11C in a container. Now the smell is gone, but I worry for the PR, I was supposed to give it a kick-start. The cheese is much harder now, I'm not sure I'll be able to smooth the surface when the time will come...
I'm worried about my cheese, but mostly of the smell, I don't know where it comes from and how to avoid it next time. I had a similar case with a cambozola, but the smell was too pungent and it meet the trash bin. The equipment was sterilized prior to using. The draining was in a tupperware container with the lid on (not tightly, to avoid 100% humidity). The ambient temp was varying between 18 and 25 degrees Celsius. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks,
Alex.
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Alex, had you salted the cheese by that point? (I can't remember for sure -- maybe a Stilton make calls for adding salt to the curds before molding?)
If not, then the acid smell could simply be the curd reaching the maximum acidity under the action of the lactic bacteria. But if you had salted it ... that should have slowed the acid production.
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Alex, had you salted the cheese by that point? (I can't remember for sure -- maybe a Stilton make calls for adding salt to the curds before molding?)
It does. The curd should have already been salted.
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Okay, so much for that idea. So, next question -- you mentioned cambozola; have you made some successful camembert or brie types before? If so, how did the smell compare to those? I'm thinking about whether you are smelling the geo that normally develops (on a blue or a cam/brie) after the first few days ... though I wouldn't describe that as an acid smell, more like mushroom.
Other than that ... I got nothing. Maybe someone else will have an idea about the possible cause.
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Blues give off a ammonia smell when aging. That said, they usually don't do that this early.
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... they usually don't do that this early.
That was my thought as well. Too bad it is so hard to describe exactly what the smell is -- once again, we need to invent otp or oml to go along with ftp or html -- odor transport protocol or odor markup language. :)
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I'm worried about my cheese, but mostly of the smell, I don't know where it comes from and how to avoid it next time. I had a similar case with a cambozola, but the smell was too pungent and it meet the trash bin. The equipment was sterilized prior to using. The draining was in a tupperware container with the lid on (not tightly, to avoid 100% humidity). The ambient temp was varying between 18 and 25 degrees Celsius. What am I doing wrong?
The temperatures mentioned above are really quite warm for a cheese: 65 to 77F. I'd say your problem lies herein. For the most part cheese should be held at around 55F or 12C. When you hold it at temperatures 20F or 12C higher than this you encourage the growth of bacteria normally not found at lower temperatures. These could cause rapid decay and generate foul odors. :o
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Thanks guys, didn't expect so many answers.
I did salt the milled curds (2.5% of the curd mass). The mold was lined with cheesecloth when I put the curds in it, to hold them together, maybe the whey on it overacidified over time, the cheesecloth was very damp and I suppose it's a good thing for "alien" bacteria...
I had two successful camemberts before, but I put them in the "cave" the second day, so they didn't have time to go bad. The cambozola recipe had the same 5-7 days of room temperature, so I let it stay and the result was bad...
It is not ammonia (though I don't know what it smells like, I've been in France and I suppose that the smell in the cheese stores has ammonia in it).
Next time I will put the cheese in the fridge the second day, though I don't know how it will affect the PR growth and the whey drainage.
Thanks,
Alex.
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Here's a photo of the cheese. Now it holds together and it seems solid and hard, but I'm afraid to start smoothing it...
To smooth or not to smooth, that is the question.
Is there hope for it to turn into a blue beauty? I think the curds were a little too dry at the moment of the moulding, lesson learned.
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Today I stumbled upon H-K-J's specifications of his make, HERE (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,12061.15.html). He lets the cheese stay for 5 days at room temperature (70 to 75°F) and everything's ok... I have no idea what am I doing wrong.
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Looks like your curd was a bit hard when you molded it. May have cooked it a bit too much. Smooth it the best you can and then let it turn blue. It should be fine.
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Thanks Al, appreciate the help.
I will try to smooth it today and get back here with the result.
Alex.
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The monster became a pretty cheese now. As I took it from the fridge and started smoothing, it became softer on the surface and the task proved to be a easy one.
I really hope that the initial mistakes in the process didn't affect it and it will become a nice blue. As I pressed to hold it, I felt that it's not solid and should provide nice veining inside if everything's gonna be ok. The PR strain is PV, I hope it is aggressive as the seller says and it will take off in a few days.
Should I leave it in the fridge? The temp is 9-11C, lots of humidity (I've put some salt in the container to bring down the RH, it was 99%, now it's 90-95).
Alex.
Photo attached:
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Let it sit out until the blue appears. Then put it in the cave at 54° F and take it out and air it out for about an hour a day at room temp.
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Thank you! I put it in an opened container, room temp. Hoping to see blue soon. One more question, if I'm not too daring. Is it supposed to smell somehow during the first period? It smells like, well..., old cottage cheese, not too unpleasant, but still. Is it normal? Too bad we can't attach the smell to our posts on the forum.
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They typically smell pretty bad until they form a rind and develop the blue. Once that happens you will find the smell changes to what you would expect from a blue. If you think about what blue cheese actually smells like it's not very nice unless you like blue cheese. LOL
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YES! I see blue! This morning there was none, now, after a long working day, every small indent is filled with the blue magic! It stinks a little, but I kinda... like it? It doesn't yet smell like the store bought blue, but I think it's not suppose to at this stage. Sooner or later the smell will evolve, I think.
I put it back in the "cave", 11-12 degrees Celsius, high humidity (around 95%, it's hard to keep it lower). I hope to have a success story to share soon.
Thanks for the help.
Alex.
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Don't forget to take it out of the cave for an hour or two each day to develop that rind. ;)
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Congratulations Alex P on the "recovery" and it will be interesting to track how this turns out. I'm curious about what you're using for your cave because most of us have trouble keeping humidity high enough?
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I'm curious about what you're using for your cave because most of us have trouble keeping humidity high enough?
The answer is rather simple: our fridge doesn't have the "no frost" function (or whatever it's called), so the humidity rises inside. In the house it is pretty high too (about 70-80%) so I have no problem keeping it at 90+. The only problem is that when I close the lid, it rises to 99-100% and I suppose is too high. I've seen many posts about slurry and failures because of humidity excess. I poured some salt at the bottom of the tupperware to maintain 90% RH and so far it works.
The blue didn't evolve much in the fridge, I hope it will adapt to the new temperature (9-11 degrees celsius) and eventually it will strive. Yesterday I made a Blue d'Auvergne, learning from my previous mistakes. I hope it will be a success.
I'll keep you in the loop.
- Alex.
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Good idea with the salt. But if you're RH is still too low you can switch to potassium chloride (KCl) that has a higher equilibrium %RH for a saturated solution (85 vs 75% for NaCl). A good thing about using salts to "buffer" relative humidity is you can let it dry out and reuse. Also, aside from using for adding to milk to enhance curd formation Calcium Cloride (CaCl2) in it's solid form is an excellent desiccant (DampRid is one that's on the market). It's also available in bulk de-icers if you want to lower %RH in your freezer.
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Hmm, good ideas, thanks! The salt does the job for now, but it's good to have a backup plan.
Yesterday I pierced the cheese and it tastes BLUE!!! Now I must resist the urge to cut it. It has to stay there for another month. It didn't develop much blue on the outside, but I felt some space inside when i pierced, so I hope there's enough space and oxygen for it do develop some blue veins. The rind is soft, due to high RH I think.
- Alex