am i crazy?

[wharris]

Again,  I find myself agreeing with Linuxboy. 

I use the minimum amount of Rennet needed.  Make sure its diluted 10:1

When I am milling my cheddar curds, they are the consistancy of cooked chicken.

[the_stain]

Be careful with adding too much veg rennet. When I've done that, I had bitter cheese and had to throw it away. Nowadays, I use a pipette with the bare minimum ml volume recommended by the manufacturer.

Unfortunately, mine didn't come with any recommendations by the manufacturer, only a blurb on a website telling me how much to use for 3 gallons of milk.

[eVenom]

What Recipe are you using?? Please post it because what you have in your first picture is a totally different step that the finished cheese curds on the second

I may be wrong but I think that you need to cook your curd longer than that until they are smaller and tougher
then strain them, press them and break them apart like in this recipe http://www.cheesemaking.com//Recipe_CheeseCurds.html

another thing is that the second picture looks more like hand cheese not cheese curds

again I might be wrong

good luck and any more information on what you did to get to this point will be great to help you out!

[the_stain]

Well, the first picture isn't mine, but it looks similar to what I always end up with.

The recipes I have tried are:

http://www.cheeseforum.org/Recipes/Recipe_Cheddar.htm

and

http://www.cheeseforum.org/Recipes/Recipe_Monterey_Jack.htm

And I also tried the cheese curds recipe you posted above from cheesemaking.com.

My main problem, which I believe to be related to everything else, seems to be curd firmness.   I am not 100% sure I am getting a "clean break" but if I had to guess, I'd say that I am not getting a very good one...  The curds, after setting, don't feel much thicker than, say, really thick yogurt.   The curds do tend to look sort of rubbery, but as soon as I pour them into a colander to drain, it's like they "shatter" and turn to mush.

I Think cooking them longer will be a good idea.  They don't get very "tough" at all when I cook them.  In fact, it seems like cooking them hardly changes the consistency whatsoever, so I wonder if my temps are just too low or slow.

[thegregger]

A few questions:

How many failed batches involved junket rennet?

How are you adding/stirring the rennet into the milk?  Are you diluting the rennet?

How and where do you store your liquid animal rennet?

Are you stirring the curds to expel whey during the cooking process?

Are you using a pH meter?

I think we can help you solve this problem.

Greg

[the_stain]

A few questions:

How many failed batches involved junket rennet?

3 out of 4 so far.   The most recent batch, I got a much better curd set, but still not quite there.  I may not have let it go long enough, or used enough rennet, as it was my first time using the liquid vegetable rennet.  I used 1/8 tsp per gallon, I may add a few extra drops next time.

How are you adding/stirring the rennet into the milk?  Are you diluting the rennet?

I've been doing it the same way with the liquid as I did with the tablets: I add it to 1/4 cup of distilled room temperature water, and stir well.  I do this about 15 minutes before time to add the rennet and stir every few minutes to make sure everything stays dissolved and distributed.   Then, I trickle the rennet solution into the milk slowly out of a measuring cup, taking about 15-20 seconds to trickle it all in as I stir with a spoon in a back-and-forth-up-and-down kind of motion.  I stir for a full minute.

How and where do you store your liquid animal rennet?

It's vegetable rennet, but anyway, I literally just bought it a few days ago, and it's kept in a ziploc bag (in case of leaks) in the door of the fridge.

Are you stirring the curds to expel whey during the cooking process?

At first, I hadn't been, and I still might not be stirring enough.  What I was doing was just sort of wiggling the stock pot around and swirling it a little, because for my first couple batches I was worried too much about curd size and breaking up the curds (which were very soft those first couple times.)  If I stir too much, the curds break up into these itty bitty pieces like cottage cheese.

This could very well be one of the problems as I'm still not totally clear on what I'm supposed to "end up with" after the cooking phase.  After I'm done cooking them, I have been under the impression that they should still pretty much look like this:



But mine looks like this:

Are you using a pH meter?

Not yet.  I have some pH strips and I'm planning on buying a meter in a week or two, once the budget allows.

Thanks for all the help, guys!

[MrsKK]

with using Junket rennet, the only times I've been truly successful in getting a good clean break is when the milk has acidified at a cool temperature for several hours/overnight first.

As I use raw milk for cheesemaking, I can't be of any more help...I'm really thinking it is the milk you are using. 

Or that you are not giving it enough time to acheive a really good, clean break.  The curd should separate off your knife/finger in fairly firm chunks when you lift through it.  At that point, the curd should be the consistency of  yogurt, but hold together better, if you know what I mean.  It is a feel thing and is hard to describe.  When it breaks, it is kind of like icebergs calving, with the berg breaking apart to either side of your knife.

Oh, experienced ones - any better description out there?

[thegregger]

Stain:

Thanks for indulging me in a game of 20 questions.  I've identified a few problems.

First, junket rennet should never be used for cheese-making.  It's much weaker than regular rennet.  Also, do not disturb your pot at all once the rennet is added.  Any movement or vibration will have a negative effect on curd formation.

Second, the cooking process involves a gentle stirring of the curds.  The heat and movement both help the curd expel whey, as the curd continues to acidify.  During swiss-making, for instance, the curd particles shrink to the size of rice grains.  It's clear from your photos that the curd is not releasing enough whey.

Having said that, store-bought milk will yield a weaker curd.  It's common practice to let the curds heal for 5 minutes or so after the initial cut.  When I first cut my curds for swiss cheese, the are very fragile, and I stir them very, very gently for the first several minutes in order to avoid having a giant vat of lame-tasting yogurt.

In closing, try not to alter times, temp, or amounts or rennet, etc.  Too much time in the pot will yield an acid cheese, and too much rennet will create a new set of problems, as well.

Greg

[the_stain]

with using Junket rennet, the only times I've been truly successful in getting a good clean break is when the milk has acidified at a cool temperature for several hours/overnight first.

As I use raw milk for cheesemaking, I can't be of any more help...I'm really thinking it is the milk you are using. 

Or that you are not giving it enough time to acheive a really good, clean break.  The curd should separate off your knife/finger in fairly firm chunks when you lift through it.  At that point, the curd should be the consistency of  yogurt, but hold together better, if you know what I mean.  It is a feel thing and is hard to describe.  When it breaks, it is kind of like icebergs calving, with the berg breaking apart to either side of your knife.

Oh, experienced ones - any better description out there?

Thanks for the description, I feel a little better as that's what I got yesterday with my new rennet.  I wasn't quite sure because when I pulled my finger out, I did get a good "break" of curds but it was like the other curds just sort of ran back in to fill the hole so I wasn't sure if it was solid enough.  I guess I was expecting something more like Jell-o!

[the_stain]

Second, the cooking process involves a gentle stirring of the curds.  The heat and movement both help the curd expel whey, as the curd continues to acidify.  During swiss-making, for instance, the curd particles shrink to the size of rice grains.  It's clear from your photos that the curd is not releasing enough whey.

I think this probably has a lot to do with it.  I guess there's a mental disconnect between how I get from fairly large curd cubes immediately after cutting, down to smaller, firmer little "bits" of curd as you describe after cooking, and then somehow turn that back[/i] into larger "chunks" of curd suitable for breading and deep-frying.

The one recipe listed above specifically for cheese curds mentions pressing them for 30-60 minutes and breaking into bite-sized chunks, but the texture of the ones they show seems a lot "coarser" than what I'm used to for "squeaky cheese" so I don't know....

Thanks for all the help.  My wife just arrived home from the store with a gallon of milk from a local dairy instead of the no-name megamart milk I've been trying, and I'm gonna give that a try today, and will let you all know how it turns out!!

[the_stain]

Well, the milk is looking like a likely culprit.  The new & improved (and unfortunately $4/gallon) local dairy milk, even though it's not raw milk, has produced a much firmer curd.  My clean break looks like a clean break, no question about it.  I'm going to cut the curds here in a few minutes and we'll see how it goes!

[thebelgianpanda]

I haven't read through all of the posts, but in my experience with conventional homogenized milk, 2% works better than whole milk if you want sturdy curds.  Now I am very aware this is different from milk to milk, but the local Lochmead dairy 2% gives a great curd and flavor, muuuuuuch better than their whole milk.

You also might want to give 1% a try.  The yield will be lower, but from my own experience the lower the fat content the easier it is to get firm curds.  With that said, I have a hard pressed skim milk loaf that's inedible--though it sure was easy to make!

[DeejayDebi]

Gee Stain I'm not sure what happened there. It looks more like yogurt. Almost looks like they weren't cooked enough or something. How do they taste? Do they have flavor? If they taste okay but are to soft I'd say cook them longer if they don't have any taste but are soft I'd say low acid development when ripening.


BTW I have used Junket for stired curd cheedar and Monterry Jack and had no problems. I will be trying a liquid rennet tonight for the first time - wish me luck!

[the_stain]

Success!   

I'll post pictures later if I can.  The combination of the firmer curd from the better milk, and the extra stirring seems to have done the trick.  I also cut the curds a lot smaller initially and did the cheddaring step rather than stirred curd.

I was a little worried at first because, despite seeming to have the right rubbery texture, it still tasted juuuuust a little bit like salty cottage cheese.  I am beginning to think this must just be how fresh cheese curds taste,  because even my previous attempt using a Monterey Jack recipe had a very similar flavor. After breading and frying, though, they're deeeeeeeeelicious!

[DeejayDebi]

They will be a bit bland while your making them. Much more like cheese curds after a few hours in the fridge. Kind of interesting to try the curd at different stages and actually feel the whey being expelled in your mouth as you bite.

Congrat on the initial sucesses! Good luck!