Capturing cheese cultures in the wild!

[hoeklijn]

There are test sets for E.Colli in milk: http://www.biooscientific.com/MaxSignal-E-coli-O157-Strip-Test-Kit. Couldn't find prices, but there seem to be more suppliers.

[qdog1955]

Tiarella----should have found a better word then " confrontational " I just don't want anyone to think I'm attacking their  position---especially someone as good natured and hard working as your self. And I certainly don't want to discourage any one from making cheese----remember folks, botulism really is quite rare in cheese.
  As far as other pathogens in cheese goes----I think prevention is the best attitude---knowing your milk source----and good make procedures.
Qdog

[Al Lewis]

All these comments are great! Even the ones telling me I'm crazy and should in no way do what I am going to do!

I'm not telling you not to do it.  Just trying to bring to light the possible consequences of your experiments.  We all have b linens and yeast floating around but, I understand you guys have a lot of other "nasties" floating around with them.  In nature things have a way of imitating each other for survival.  You could find it extremely difficult to tell the bad guys from the good guys.  No one's wearing a white hat in the bacteria world.

[jmason]

Al,
Is B. linens that common?  It appeared spontaneously on my blue, wasn't sure at first but then the smell developed and I was pretty sure it was a linens.  Not orange, but a tan colored thing, and truthfully it's sorta welcome here.  I'm hoping it finds and likes my current cheese.  Afraid to transfer it from the blue since I don't want to risk bringing the blue to the party but if it finds it's way to this cheese I may use this one to smear to other future makes, it has good flavor and the smell isn't all that bad.

John

[TimT]

Personally I think early Australian brewers exaggerated the wild yeast problem not because there are more wild yeasts over here - or they're more dangerous - but because the weather conditions are often such that they favour wild yeasts, or normal brewing yeasts with ester production so high that the results taste wild.

Not sure about cheesemaking - but cheese bacteria seems pretty tenacious, really.

As regards testing for infections in wild cultured yoghurts and cheeses at home, well, all of the suggestions here are quite useful. Bubbling is a good sign of botulism (possibly wild yeast as well???! Not sure), smell is another good indication, etc. PH testing may not be out of the question.

Of course the aim would  be to give the lacto-bacilli cultures in the milk just the right environment to acidify the milk quickly and efficiently, so that would be achieved using sterile equipment sealed off from the outside.

I'll let y'all know when I can take the next step!

[hoeklijn]

B.Linens is very common, it's on your hands and all over your body. In fact it's the bacteria that is causing smelling feet, at least it's the same family....

[TimT]

I have a cheeseboard where it seems B Linens has taken up residence. Unfortunately some moulds seem to like it too so I can't use it as I was originally planning, as a 'starter' for a cheese with a B Linens rind. More's the pity

[TimT]

So, the great Catch A Wild Cheese Culture experiment is underway!

I bought a small 1 Litre bottle of raw milk. After having some for myself (mmmm creamy top) I poured the rest in clean freshly boiled jars.

I'm just keeping the jars the right temp by the water bath method, refreshing the bath as needs during the day.

So I've got one at thermophilic LB temps - around 40 degrees celsius - and the other at mesophilic LB temps, around 25 degrees celsius.

My main concern is overnight, with the current method, the thermophilic LB jar will lose a lot of heat unless I can find my damn yoghurt maker!

I'm going to give them both a good 24 hours to give the cultures a lot of time to really grow in strength.

Might use them in a simple cheese, like a Jack, that can be aged if needed, and I can taste the results 

[jmason]

I'd personally opt for something where geo or some other molds would be a normal part of the make.  I got a feeling your gonna get some molds and yeasts falling into your "trap".  Maybe a nice tomme.

John

[TimT]

I dunno. Is it common for raw milk cheeses to end up with moulds and other bugs? Do they play a part in the ageing process? There's a couple of other raw milk cheesemakers out there so maybe they can provide some feedback?

[jmason]

it's not just a raw milk cheese though is it?  You're leaving it open to the environment in an attempt to capture wild microbes.

John

[TimT]

I've sealed the raw milk up until it cultures, so I don't think it'll catch anything else *touchwood*!

[Tiarella]

Well I guess it all depends.  There is plenty of stuff free-floating so you may have caught something just in the pouring into the bottles but then the next chance to catch something is when the cheeses are aging.  I had b. linens show up immediately on my first cheese....well not immediately but in a week in a new wine fridge that had never had cheese in it.  It's a grand experiment and I'm glad you're doing it.  I have enough raw milk that I've been making cheese specifically for our new chicks....they've been growing well on it.  Why make cheese specifically for them? Well since it's a like a group of pirhanas (spelling?) feeding I want it to hold together but not be too hard to break up so I make a chèvre using more rennet than usual to make it a bit rubbery because they like to grab pieces and run around like crazy chicks, chasing, etc.   Plain soft chèvre doesn't work quite as well and sticks to their new feathers and gets lost in the hay bedding, etc. 

[TimT]

Oh yes. Feeding cheese to chickens. I've been there. Oh, yes I have. Know exactly what you mean

[TimT]

Okay, so so far we have mixed results.

One jar has cultured *very* well: it's about 4/5ths whey to 1/5th curds. The other jar doesn't seem to have cultured noticeably - just a bit of cream at the top.

The first jar was the one I attempted to keep at thermophilic temps, the second at mesophilic temps. Mind you, the temp control on both wasn't brilliant - the thermophilic one was probably kept at a temp of around 35 celsius for most of the day, and it dropped right down to around 10 degrees overnight. (Maybe I should assume I've got a mesophilic culture in the jar with some thermophilic notes!)

Mind you, I kept the mesophilic culture in the same water bath as our house yoghurt - and that's clabbered up nicely.

I'll keep trying to curdle it through the night and tomorrow.

So I'm wondering what I should do with my semi-thermo culture. I don't really use many thermophilic recipes. I had been thinking of doing a Jack cheese. What do folks say?