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Hello from Chilly Colorado

Started by ksk2175, January 18, 2016, 10:03:58 PM

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ksk2175

Hello, my name is Ken and I hail from Colorado.  I am new to the cheese making community having only started late last year.  A few years ago I became interested in making wine after a trip to Napa Valley, CA and have enjoyed that ever since.  I also make some very nice hard ciders.   

Last summer, my wife and I were wondering around our local county fair and we came across a photo exhibit of various cheeses someone had made locally.  Although I love to cook, I had never thought of making cheese before that.  How in the heck do you make cheese, I thought..... and that started it ... I mean, I love cheese and spend too much money at our local cheese shop as it is but could I actually learn to make it?  My wife bought me the books by Ricki and Gianaclis and I also watched every video by Gavin Webber over at Little Green Cheese about a zillion times and I thought, hey, if I can make wine, I can make cheese.  I bought some equipment and off I went. 

I started with mozzarella, both the traditional whey and the quick method.  Then I made some queso fresca and queso blanco.  Eventually made my first cheddar, jalapeno cheddar, and recently a Leicester.  I am about 7 cheeses in, mostly all hard cheddared style cheeses and I am loving every waiting minute of it.  So far my cheese cave is a fridge in my basement that I have temperature controlled but have not been able to get my humidity up high enough so until I can figure that out, I stay with cheeses I can wax or vacuum seal.  I cant wait to graduate into some bloomy or washed rind cheeses and further my experience with affinage.  I love to experiment so maybe put some of my homemade wines and ciders to good use there. I may have to invest into some plastic tubs and see what kind of humidity I can get up to within.

Like most things in life, its about the journey, and I am having a good time on this cheesy road so far.  I am glad I discovered the forums here as there is a ton in good information and people to lean on when I am just stumped.  Cheers!

awakephd

Hello, Ken, and welcome to the forum! What part of Colorado? My wife is from Denver, so we get out that way from time to time.

On the humidity issue and bloomies, etc., you're on the right track with the plastic tubs -- aka ripening boxes. I learned about this technique here on the forum, and it has enabled me to make high-humidity cheeses even in my relatively low-humidity "cave." Keep the cheese in the container inside the cave, cracking the lid as needed to control the humidity. If mist forms on the sides of the container, it is just about right. Every day or so, drain and wipe out any condensation; this also allows the cheese to get some fresh air. I have made camembert 6 or 7 times this way, with excellent results.

Note that some people have a ripening box that will hold several camemberts or such at once; I have el cheapo containers from Walmart that are just the right size for one of my over-sized camemberts at a time; I make 3 camemberts per recipe, so use 3 of the containers. I also am ripening a large blue cheese (6 gallon make, around 7 lbs.) at the moment; for that, I am using an old cake carrier as my ripening box. (When not in use for that purpose, the cake carrier also serves as my tub for brining. :))

Obviously, the ultimate is to get a humidity controller. John at PerfectCheese.com sells units that many on the forum use and endorse. In the meantime, however, if you just need to up the humidity a little, you may be able to get by with hanging a cheesecloth in a bowl of water. My "cave" is a converted wine fridge; it averages around 60% RH; if I do the cheesecloth, I can get it up to maybe 70% -- still too low, but even that little can help with preventing cracking as I'm drying a cheddar or whatnot.

Remember that pictures are always good -- we want to see what you are making!
-- Andy

ksk2175

Andy, I am a bit North of Denver by about 45 minutes but I work down in that area often.  Let me know when you come to town, maybe we could meet for a beer. 

Ok, that's it, you've convinced me ... Camembert is next...  but wait, Ive only purchased one of the little camembert molds so far ... need to come up with some other ideas on what to use to get multiples made out of one make.  Any good recipes to let me in on?

Ive only got a 4 gallon vat so far but am looking to get a larger one soon.  If you get 3 oversized ones out of of one recipe, are you using a 6-gallon recipe?  How do they turn out?

I had my cave starting at around 55% RH and got it up to 68% with a tub of water and rolled towel placed near the bottom but like you said, not close enough.  Is there a tip for what to use inside the tubs to maintain moisture?  That cake carrier idea is brilliant ... double duty ... I like it.

Thanks for the welcome .... we will see you around, I'm sure. 

-Ken

Andrew Marshallsay

Welcome to the Forum, Ken. I'm sure you will find it to be a very useful resource.

As Andy said, plastic boxes are the go for Camemberts, but also for some other cheeses as well. If you hunt around you may be able to get some with a rack in the bottom. The following link contains some pictures of the sort of thing I am talking about: https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14727.0.html
You will probably find some other useful information here as well as Mal (OzzieCheese) is a Camembert Master.
- Andrew

awakephd

#4
Ken,

Are you in Longmont? I have a cousin who lives there.

The camemberts that I make are ~6" diameter (I'd have to measure to be sure exactly) rather than the traditional 4" -- so not oversize by that much. Smaller than a Brie, but larger than a traditional cam, and the reason is mostly just because of what I have on hand for molds. Regardless of the diameter, by the time they are ripe you only want them to be about 1.5" high, so it doesn't take as much milk as you may think. To make 3 of my 6" diameter cams, I use 2 gallons whole milk + 1 pt of cream -- the extra cream not only makes them richer, but also helps to stabilize for a longer ripening ... which also leads to more developed taste. Be sure to search on this forum for "Malembert" -- Mal (OzzieCheese) is the master of this make, and I follow his recipe fairly closely, though I think he uses 4" molds (and thus gets 6 cams out of a 2+ gallon make). I'll add a second post with my version of his recipe.

Now, here is a secret: I've made very successful camemberts of this size using Cool Whip containers with holes drilled or punched in them for the molds. Flimsy, to be sure, but there is no pressing on this make, so flimsy works just fine. The shape of the cool whip container does leave a little indentation, but it still works just fine. I'm now using some reblochon molds, just because I have them; they are really too short, but otherwise similar in size to the Cool Whip containers. Both the reblochon molds and the Cool Whip containers have a bottom, rather than the traditional open-ended camembert molds, so it is a bit different procedure to flip, but it is not hard. For the first flip, I put some plastic mesh over the container, turn it over, and let it sit on/drain through the mesh (still "in" the mold, but now upside down). For the second flip, I just turn it back upright. For subsequent flips, the cheese is firm enough to handle gently, so I put my hand over the container, turn it over, and release the cheese on my palm. Then I turn the cheese over into my other hand. Finally, I put the container back over the cheese, and turn my hand and the container to let the cheese drop back into the container. More confusing to describe than it is actually to do ...

For the ripening boxes, the beauty is that you don't need to do anything to maintain the moisture -- the cheese itself maintains the RH needed. Again, you can control this by whether / how much of a crack you leave with the lid; in my "cave," I generally lay the lid fully on, but don't snap it down, and it works great. The main thing you need to do is to keep the cheese up off the bottom, so that it doesn't sit in any liquid that may accumulate. (This happens mostly in the first couple of days, when there is still some draining happening, especially as the salt continues to work its way in.) Thus the suggestion to find ripening boxes that come with a rack. However, if you can't find appropriate boxes easily or cheaply, there is, again, a DIY option. I bought some "egg crate light diffuser" at Home Depot or Lowes (don't remember which) -- it can be a bit difficult to find it on line, as it is never called what I think it should be, and it is not found in the lighting department. Instead, find it in the area where they have materials for suspended ceilings. Cut it to fit your container; it is a very light-weight plastic that can easily be cut with side cutting pliers, or probably could be cut with scissors as well. Important: sterilize by running through the top rack of the dishwasher; do not attempt to boil this material -- it will deform at that temperature!

The egg crate material is great for raising the cheese up from the bottom, but it is far too coarse for the cheese to sit on, so you will also need to cut some finer plastic mesh to sit on top of the egg crate. This is available from the cheese supply companies in finer or coarser varieties ... but I bought some plastic mesh in the craft department at Walmart that works equally well. Cost at Walmart was a few bucks for a half-dozen large sheets. Cost of the egg crate material was maybe $8-9 for a 24" x 48" sheet. So, for less than $15, I have a lifetime supply ... :)
-- Andy

awakephd

#5
As promised, here is the recipe I am using:

2 gallons whole milk (store bought P&H is all I have access to, unfortunately)
1 pt heavy cream (ultra pasteurized is all I have access to, even more unfortunately)
1/4+ tsp Flora Danica (can use other mesophilic cultures as well; FD comes in a rather coarse grain; I crush it fine before measuring)
1/32 tsp Penicillin Candidum (I am using Danisco Choozit PC-ABL)
1/64 Geotrichium Candidum (I think I am using Danisco Choozit Geo-13, but I'll have to check to be sure of the strain)
1/8+ tsp CaCl crystals (I use "Pickle Crisp" as my CaCl, dissolved in some filtered/boiled water, then cooled before adding to the milk)
½ tsp rennet (note that for this recipe I use double the usual rate of dosage)
4.5 tsp salt (I use Pickling Salt, a small-crystal non-iodized salt. If you use coarse salt, you'll need to adjust the amount accordingly)

Bring milk to 90°, add CaCl, add cultures, stir in after 5 minutes, let ripen for 90 minutes.
Add rennet, let flocc for 60 minutes.
Cut into ~1" cubes; rest 5-10 minutes.
Stir gently 5-15 minutes. (Using P&H milk plus UP cream, the curds will tend to shatter easily; in that case, stir less)
Rest 15 minutes.
Ladle curds into three 6" molds.
Drain for 24 hours, flipping every 15 minutes for the first ~ 1-1/2 hours.
Add 3/4 tsp salt to one side of each cheese, still in the mold; leave for 12 hours.
Flip and add 3/4 tsp salt to the other side of each cheese. Move to ripening boxes in the 50-55° "cave."
Flip once a day, wiping excess moisture from ripening boxes. After 1-2 days, the cheeses should feel a bit slimy as the geo takes hold. After 7-10 days, the cheeses should be well covered with the white PC. Once they are well covered, either wrap in ripening paper or leave in the ripening boxes, but move them to the cold fridge (kitchen refrigerator), flipping every other day or so, to age for another 5-6 weeks (6-7 weeks total) until they are distinctly soft all the way to the middle. Optionally, move one cheese at a time back to the 50-55° cave for a few days before eating -- this recommendation came from Kern, and I find this to be the perfect temperature for a cam. Alternately or in addition, move to room temperature for up to a day before eating. If the ammonia smell/taste is too strong, unwrap / remove from the ripening box for an hour or so before eating.
-- Andy

ksk2175

Ding ding ding, we have a winner!  Andy, yes, I live in Longmont and work up in Fort Collins most the time (thats where my office is) but travel all over the metro area visiting jobsites.  I am a project manager in the construction industry.  We have a great goat farm creamery here in Longmont called Haystack Mountain Creamery and they make some great cheese and recently I found out that they offer classes on making cheese there.  I may have to go meet some of my other local cheese heads and take some classes. We also have a great cheese store called "Cheese Importers" ... the place is pretty amazing and takes all my money.  If your cousin is into cheese, I am sure they have been there.  Great lunches also.

This morning I read that post from Mal - "Malembert" and loved the pictures.  I also love those Decor-Microsafe boxes he has with the steam rack in the bottom.  I havent been able to locate any of them here in the states with just a few google searches or really anything similar.  I also like what he was talking about with the stirring of the curds and not being harsh with them.  I am familiar with that egg crate - diffuser product and think that is a great idea.  You gave me some great tips for creating these boxes myself and I think I have the confidence now to go put some together.  So no other moisture than the wet cheese huh?  Ok, great, that is less maintenance.  I had images of little ramekins filled with water and me spilling them all over the place with my clumsiness as I was maintaining my cheese. 

Have you had any problems using the cool whip containers due to the angled sides or is the splay not that bad on them (cant remember) or does the flipping procedure you describe help eliminate that deficiency by turning them over by hand and replacing them into solid bottom mold after the 2nd turn?  I have been saving all our sour cream containers and cottage cheese containers in hopes of using them at some point but now that I think about it, the sour cream containers may have too much of a difference in diameter between top and bottom.  I would think that the straight sides are more beneficial with Cams.

Thank you for your recipe!

Have you ever used raw cows milk?  I recently came upon a free supply of fresh raw cows milk that is "gifted" to me a gallon at a time a couple times a week if I want.  (Family friends that own a few Jersey cows on a farm here in Longmont.)  I was able to ask them all about the health of their cows, what they eat, and watched their milking operation and the handling of the milk afterwards and I feel pretty safe that the cows are healthy, and that they handle the milk very well in regards to cleanliness.  I wonder if it would take less cream if using raw milk?




ksk2175

Thank you for the welcome Andrew (Red Prawn).  I was all over that post from Mal this morning.  Good stuff!  Cant wait to make my first Cam. 

awakephd

Longmont is a pretty area! I don't know yet if we'll make it out this summer, but if so I send you a private message via the forum to see if we can meet.

I don't find the angled sides to be too much of a problem; after flipping several times, you wind up with the sides gently rounded. Actually, for my pressed cheeses, which I typically do as a 4-gallon make, I am using a home-made (re-purposed) mold that has similarly angled sides. When I flip them during the pressing, I think the angled sides may actually help to produce a good knit, as the slightly wider top gets compressed a bit into the bottom (if that makes sense). When they come out of the mold, they are just a bit trapezoidal ... but by the time they age, it is very, very slight and probably no one would notice if it were not pointed it out.

I hesitate to confess the source of my re-purposed container that has become my primary mold ... but oh, well, this is all between friends, right? It is a container that originally contained dry wall joint compound. Yes, I cleaned it thoroughly, sterilized, etc. The key is, it is exactly the right size, and exactly the right sort of plastic, and it is relatively heavy construction (it stands up to my 300-lb. cheddar pressing), and it even has a nice little cross-hatch pattern on the side ... and it was free once I emptied it in pursuit of a bathroom remodel project. :) You can see this mold in the press in my avatar picture.

Raw milk ... sigh. Yes, once, and it was a heavenly experience. The curd is so much better, and the taste was richer and more complex. For a camembert, according to the FDA, one should pasteurize the milk (true for anything that ages less than 60 days), but you can low-temperature pasteurize (hold at 140° for 30 minutes) to minimize damage. (Note that the damage to P&H milk is not only the higher-temperature pasteurization, but also the homogenization.) Unfortunately, it is illegal to sell raw milk for human consumption in this state, so the one time I used it, I got it from someone who participates in a cooperative that trucks it in from another state. I couldn't guarantee the source or the conditions of transport, so I went ahead and did a low-temp pasteurization, even though the cheese I made was aged > 60 days. Still worked so much better than store-bought; the difference was really quite incredible. Unfortunately, it was very, very expensive and a bit convoluted to get it, so I haven't repeated the experience. I keep hoping to find a friendly farmer near by ... :)
-- Andy

Kern

Quote from: ksk2175 on January 20, 2016, 07:52:11 PM
Have you ever used raw cows milk?  I recently came upon a free supply of fresh raw cows milk that is "gifted" to me a gallon at a time a couple times a week if I want.  (Family friends that own a few Jersey cows on a farm here in Longmont.)  I was able to ask them all about the health of their cows, what they eat, and watched their milking operation and the handling of the milk afterwards and I feel pretty safe that the cows are healthy, and that they handle the milk very well in regards to cleanliness.  I wonder if it would take less cream if using raw milk?

I use a lot of raw milk for longer aged cheeses but have not tried using it for Cams and likely won't.  The cow has more to do with the fat content of milk than the method of processing.  Jersey cow milk has a higher fat content than Holstein or many other types so adding cream is likely not required.  Raw milk is not processed so most producers don't alter the milk by removing cream.  It is what it is.  Most P&H milk is standardized to a content that is likely 1-1.5% less than Jersey cows.  For Camembert I use cream top milk.  This is vat pasteurized to 146F for 30 minutes but is not homogenized.  This process kills all the natural bacteria - both the starter and NSLAB (non-starter lactic acid bacteria).  Most recipes base culture amounts on pasteurized milk.  Cut these back to about 50-60% if using raw milk or else you'll be chasing the pH drop and likely end up with a too-low pH for the cheese you are making.  I don't see any problem with using raw milk for Cams if the milk is otherwise "clean".  The NSLAB adds to the character of any cheese and will likely change the way the Cams taste verses the same milk pasteurized.

I am doing a little experiment with using P&H milk for Cams.  The first batch did not have heavy cream added and seemed to ripen too fast.  This may be due to the lower fat content and it also may be due to a higher pH at salting.  For the second batch (now in the cave growing PC) I added a pint of cream to two gallons of milk and also added 30 grams of lactose to each gallon to produce more acid.  The pH of this batch was at the low end of the range for Cams.  We shall see.

It is important to get your Cams into the cold fridge as soon as the PC has totally covered the cheese (about 10 days).  This greatly slows down the PC part of the ripening process and allows the paste time to undergo its aging process.  You can either wrap the cheese in special paper or leave it in a shallow lidded box with a humidity gauge.  I like the paper.