First attempt at washed cheese---slow B. linens?

[DoctorCheese]

B linens does not raise pH on its own from my understanding. It just moves in opportunistically once someone else has done the work.

[nightsky]

Oh, I might have misunderstood the action of B. linens then.  Then again, don't the other organisms in the cheese (like yeasts) act towards increasing the pH anyway before B. linens can grow? Or is this mechanism limited to the surface?

The way I see things right now, since I'm faced with an acidic cheese, my backup plan is to let the white mold grow naturally and end up with a stinky-bloomy cheese. Or is there a better way to go about this?

[DoctorCheese]

Here is a picture of my Taste of Portland cheese. As you can see, it has a white powdery mold with b linens growing beneath it. I like the experimental side of cheese making and I roll with the punches (mistakes or flaws) which has always ended with an edible creation. You might like looking at my wild flora cheese.

My advice for you in regards to your current situation is to let go of pre conceived expectations for the type of cheese you are creating and instead focus on what you've got, so you can make the best of it.

The other option is war. Depending on your rind thickness and what phenotype of mold you've got, it is possible you can brush it off every day and hope b linens thrives before you have destroyed your rind (which I assume is not thick or non existent at this point). If the mold doesn't get backed off though, it will probably liquify your cheese pretty quick (PC cheeses usually aren't aged long at 55 degrees).

[nightsky]

Yeah, I did get to read that thread before.

As I do love the experimentation with these cheeses, I was really planning on going along with the cheese development. I just have to check if there's any really bad reason not to do so.

So yeah, right now, I have a pair of cheeses that have been converted from a bloomy-rind to a washed-rind alongside these two (but in different boxes). And now these two are washed-rinds that are becoming bloomy. Interesting... I'm guessing cross-contamination may have some role in this.

Anyway, I'm planning on patting down the mold tomorrow and flipping them to allow the mold to grow on the other side for a few days. Afterwards, off they go to the fridge for slower ripening in wrappers. Thanks for the advise!

[Gregore]

It's all about curd moisture levels , the ph at salting and how much humidity you age them in


Pc likes a little dryer curd and storage than b linens , b linens likes a little higher ph to start but it is not mandatory .  And b linens likes the surface moisture from regular washing of the rind

B linens will not grow well before ph raises up from geo activity , pc will start with a  lower ph

If your washing the rind and pc is growing more than b linens then more than likely the ph was too low at salting

So on a timed recipe salt sooner ...... maybe 10 to 15 percent sooner

[nightsky]

It's all about curd moisture levels , the ph at salting and how much humidity you age them in


Pc likes a little dryer curd and storage than b linens , b linens likes a little higher ph to start but it is not mandatory .  And b linens likes the surface moisture from regular washing of the rind

B linens will not grow well before ph raises up from geo activity , pc will start with a  lower ph

If your washing the rind and pc is growing more than b linens then more than likely the ph was too low at salting

So on a timed recipe salt sooner ...... maybe 10 to 15 percent sooner

Interesting information Gregore. Hopefully I can get a pH meter soon so I can make these cheeses with more consistency.

Also, I flipped the cheeses just now and patted down the mold growing on the surface. The bottom side was sitting on some damp kitchen tissues and I may have ripped some of the growth off on the bottom part. On the other hand, that side of the cheese was also visibly redder so I'm guessing the B. linens liked the damp tissue. Will the mold still grow on this side or will I have a two-faced cheese? 

[awakephd]

The other option is war.

That line gave me a chuckle - I've done battle a few times, usually with mixed results.

[Gregore]

If the bottom side is more orange/red then that may indicate your humidity is a little low .

Some times b linens just takes time to get started .

[nightsky]

If the bottom side is more orange/red then that may indicate your humidity is a little low .

This is what's confusing me. Don't the molds enjoy a higher humidity range than B. linens? I've tried keeping all surfaces damp before with a kitchen tissue but that didn't help at all with the growth. I only started seeing signs of orange when I let the surface breathe a bit more.

In any case, right now, I'm trying to regrow mold on the other side of the cheese for a few days before migrating them to a cold fridge for a slower affinage.

[awakephd]

Here's an interesting tidbit that I found on internet - of course, considering the source, it MUST be true, right?

https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Brevibacterium_linens

This says that the color will not show unless it is exposed to light. That's something I've never heard before, but perhaps explains why sometimes we get the stink but not the color - ??

[awakephd]

Also found this link - hope it shows up; it is a Google Books page from the Oxford Companion to Cheese: https://books.google.com/books?id=qRg1DQAAQBAJ&pg=PA664&lpg=PA664&dq=b+linens+soften+cheese&source=bl&ots=EOfE8cxFhB&sig=_WNLULhuuPnvQ_TCNk0k3HnMFeA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiczKuNu5rUAhVE7yYKHSJrBD8Q6AEIPzAE#v=onepage&q=b%20linens%20soften%20cheese&f=false

It says that b. Linens has a proteolytic action that helps to soften a cheese. That said, it doesn't sound like it is quite the same action/process that the PC / geo produce ...

[nightsky]

Well, thanks to your link I ended up digging through journals pertaining to B. linens.

An interesting bit of information can be found in Aspects of Enzymology and Biochemical Properties of Brevibacterium linens Relevant to Cheese Ripening: A Review (Rattray and Fox, 1999).

Some keypoints pertaining to some of the concerns with B. linens growth:

• B. linens is a highly halotolerant bacteria and many papers suggest it grows well at about 8% salt concentrations;
• As we know, there are many different strains of B. linens. This paper points to another study that investigated 32 different strains and some strains produced color with or without light while some only produced the pigments when exposed to light. Also, it seems that under pH 6.0, sufficient NaCl is needed to present any coloration but the color is most visible at pH 7.0;
• B. linens seems to like growing at room temperatures. I'm guessing this means we can let the bacteria grow better by airing at room temperature for short bursts of time?;
• Quite interestingly, under the right conditions, B. linens produces antimicrobial peptides (bacteriocins as described in this paper) that are capable of neutralizing Listeria and Clostridium.

Regarding proteolysis, I found a short article describing B. linens behavior (again referencing the same paper as above). This one suggests that B. linens raises the pH as it grows which, as we know, is the key to casein resolubilization. So assuming I'm reading this correctly, it would imply that it should have a similar action as PC/GC.

Then again, while I am into research as a profession, I'm in a completely different field so my understanding of biochemistry may be quite limited. 

[DoctorCheese]

What do you research?

[nightsky]

Computer engineering. 

[Gregore]

Washed rind cheeses were generally in the past washed on 1 side then  placed dry side put down on wood shelves , the next time it is washed it gets flipped and dry side down again .

The wood helps a lot to get the moisture correct , the next best thing is dry side down on a thin plastic mesh with dry paper towels under the mesh.  This should be in a plastic box or a humidity controlled cave .

And b linens needs higher surface moisture than the other cultures , but blue is also happy in this range.