Munster smells alcoholic at demoulding?

tobyw · September 11, 2017, 10:48:03 PM

Hello all - full of questions at the moment! I tried making Munster this weekend. I followed the recipe in Debra Amrein-Boyes

I came to demould them today and found they had a fairly noticeable aroma of sweet sherry - rather like a day old trifle. I have never used b.linens before so I am wondering if that's normal? It seems too early for the b.linens to have started working, and I would have expected a less pleasant smell if it was anyway.

I departed from the instructions twice - I overheated the milk to 100F instead of 90F before adding culture, so I allowed it to cool back down and then carried on as normal. Also, it said to drain for 24 hours but mine ended up getting about 30 hours of draining, and were not flipped at all today because I was at work for a long time. They were well covered with a large cloth tucked in the edges to keep out flies. Not sure if either of those things would be significant.

I'm wondering if anyone has noticed a similar smell with this cheese? I seem to be a dab hand at picking up unwanted bacteria, so I hope I haven't ruined it already!

Gregore · September 12, 2017, 03:47:41 AM

I do not think it is possible for a cheese to go bad in less than 2 days .

Just keep following the recipe , when it gets slimey on the surface start washing with salt solution , that can take from 3 to 6 days depending on temps and moisture level . Mine always seems to take 5 to 6 days .

awakephd · September 12, 2017, 02:08:45 PM

My guess is that you have picked up some yeast. If it gets out of hand, it could cause a problem ... but if you get the b. Linens going, it should crowd out the yeast.

tobyw · September 12, 2017, 08:59:10 PM

Quote from: awakephd on September 12, 2017, 02:08:45 PM
My guess is that you have picked up some yeast. If it gets out of hand, it could cause a problem ... but if you get the b. Linens going, it should crowd out the yeast.

Thanks awake - sounds convincing because the smell is hard to nail down where I've smelt it, but it is yeasty. I hope the b.linens wins out - any tips for how to help the b.linens beat the yeast? Should I allow it to dry more with the lids ajar, or keep it nice and moist?

awakephd · September 13, 2017, 01:42:18 PM

How much salt / what salting method did you use? If I recall correctly, b. Linens is halophilic (it likes salt), but the salt will discourage some yeasts / molds. I'm going on fuzzy memory here, so hopefully others will chime in to correct me if I'm wrong!

tobyw · September 13, 2017, 07:59:45 PM

I hadn't yet salted at that point. The intense sweetish smell was noticed at the point I removed from the moulds ready to salt and place in containers for aging.

Since salting and going into containers, the smell is much less intense, so maybe the salt is doing it's work. I washed with brine today, although I am unsure about whether this is a good idea or not. The instructions I am following say this is what I should do, but other things I have read suggest that this could remove the b.linens too... would I be better not to rub with brine every other day and let the b.linens have a chance to grow?

Fritz · September 14, 2017, 12:15:00 AM

Stale/old milk has that smell too during cheese making ... especially when using raw milk.
The cut curds may want to "float" as well. A telltale sign of old milk.

Good luck

Fritz

Gregore · September 14, 2017, 05:28:02 AM

There is no b linens until the geo raises the ph enough for b linens to grow.

Washing too soon slowed down geo thus it takes longer to get your cheese ripe .

tobyw · September 18, 2017, 09:26:18 PM

I made a batch of brie this weekend, and found the cheeses giving off this same smell during the draining stage again. I'm beginning to wonder if it's the starter culture I used, because that's the only thing both batches share as a difference from all other batches I have made which didn't have the smell. I've never had it before, but the last batch and this one both used a new batch of mesophilic starter, and both exhibited this same smell. Normally, I find that the cheese when draining just has a mild creamy smell. But I've never used mesophilic culture before, so I don't have anything to compare with.

This got me thinking about what is actually in starter culture. Is it yeast, mould or bacteria? After digging around, I am finding conflicting information claiming it is either yeast, bacteria or mould. But with my basic knowledge of biology, I'm pretty sure they are not the same thing.

The culture I used is here. If contains lactococcus lactis, which is a bacterium not a yeast, according to Wikipedia. But it also contains maltodextrin, which is apparently sweet. Could that cause this smell? The description for this product list its properties as 'aromatic'... maybe this is the aroma?

I'll wait and see how it turns out - but it is always nice to understand stuff. Anyone know if yeast is ever included in starter, and whether maltodextrin can give off such a strong sweet smell? Maybe I'm going to get some really tasty cheese!

tobyw · September 18, 2017, 09:37:57 PM

Quote from: Fritz on September 14, 2017, 12:15:00 AM
Stale/old milk has that smell too during cheese making ... especially when using raw milk.
The cut curds may want to "float" as well. A telltale sign of old milk.

Good luck

Fritz

That's a good tip abut the floating curds. I wish there was a book which just listed all the problems you might encounter with cheese making, and how to recognise them. It would be much more useful that yet another book with the steps to follow and no explanation of why! I find there are so many variables, and so little information about the effect of those variables. I presume the problem is that with so many variables, it would be impossible to narrow down the cause.

That said don't think the milk was stale on this occasion, because the curds seemed normal enough - although it's hard to know with store bought...

Fritz · September 18, 2017, 10:46:06 PM

Hi tobyw
If I may recommend, a book you may like is "Mastering Artisan Cheesemaking" by Gianaclis Caldwell.
It's a bit more technical and process based, and it's recipe format is not based on cheese name, but rather by cheese type. At the risk of being a bit more advanced, it may hold the answers you seek... have fun

Gregore · September 19, 2017, 04:14:22 AM

You nailed it Tobyw , there are so many variables and each one effects the next one , but the book I linked to in the library is the best your going to get, it is question and answer form . So you can go to the section for the type of cheese your making and read only that .

tobyw · September 19, 2017, 07:18:50 AM

Quote from: Fritz on September 18, 2017, 10:46:06 PM
Hi tobyw
If I may recommend, a book you may like is "Mastering Artisan Cheesemaking" by Gianaclis Caldwell.
It's a bit more technical and process based, and it's recipe format is not based on cheese name, but rather by cheese type. At the risk of being a bit more advanced, it may hold the answers you seek... have fun

That's fantastic...sounds exactly what I am looking for. I have tried a few books, but most are just recipes without explanation. I was hoping to understand more from reading the Science of Cheese but got nowhere with this. It has loads of scientific facts, but it doesn't really provide any real insight into the process. I will try the Caldwell book asap.

Thanks very much Fritz