Naturally occurring raw milk cultured cheese

[GortKlaatu]

I'm curious.
We know that we all add specific cultures and blends to try to mimic the bacterial activity of the original raw milk versions of the cheese in question. (I mean, we all do realize that the famous artisan cheesemakers of France, Spain, England, etc did not open up little packets of freeze-dried bacteria to make their famous cheeses.)


So, my question:
How many of you who use raw milk, try to mimic a cheese WITHOUT adding any additional cultures. You rely on the innate naturally occurring bacterial colonies and the cheesemaking process itself to try to approximate the cheese under consideration?


I've made two Caerphillys (?Caerphillies?) based on the commercial, industrialized versions and they are just not "all that." Having discovered the original intent of farmhouse Caerphilly to be thick, natural-rinded and to have "breakdown" under the rind, my latest quest is to try to duplicate that. I have two plans of attack. The first is in using my raw milk to NOT add any thermo cultures (to avoid stabilization) and only add a Meso blend. The other is to add NO additional cultures, but rather, to rely on the innate, naturally occurring bacteria present in my "girls' " raw milk.  Planning to do one of each...back to back.


Your answer to the first question?  Other thoughts?

[River Bottom Farm]

As you mentioned old school cheese was not made with dvi culture but most if not all used clabber that was stabilized over a few generations of clabbering before they were used in cheese. I haven't made cheese by just leaving the milk to acidify on it's own with my raw milk but have made butter with cream that was left to clabber using no added culture and although edible has a bit of a garbage after tone to it if it gets left too long. It just depends on on what your local flora is. Here is a good thread on starting your own raw milk thermo starter: https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,8013.0.html
And another for a more wild approach: https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10345.msg77228.html#msg77228

[Sailor Con Queso]

FYI, "natural" raw milk does not contain ANY bacteria. It is by definition sterile. It picks up bacteria during milking and handling.

[GortKlaatu]

I'm not sure what you mean by "natural" raw milk--I never used that term.
FYI Sailor, milk as it is secreted by the modified sweat glands is sterile, but raw milk in the udder and as it is collected--even under the most sterile and closed of systems--always contains bacteria, yeast, molds etc.
There are myriad studies looking at this, but one that is very recent and summarizes much of these ideas is:
Isn't Milk Sterile? A Historical Perspective on Microbes in Milk
Michelle K. McGuire1, Mark A. McGuire2, in Prebiotics and Probiotics in Human Milk, 2017

They affirm that reviewing dozens of previously published studies mostly relying on culture-dependent methods (and thus providing underestimations of bacterial taxa present), these researchers list more than 400 species of lactic acid bacteria, gram- and catalase-positive bacteria, gram-negative bacteria, yeasts, and molds in raw milk. (My emphasis)
They go on to say:Importantly, a cheese's flavor appears to be intensified if it is made with raw rather than pasteurized milk, and these authors attribute this to the presence of live native microbiota
And in summary: In summary, although we tend to think of fermented dairy products as being made from an "external" starter culture perhaps derived from environmental sources—and this is obviously true for modern products made from sterilized (pasteurized) milk—it is clear that these cultures (aka bacteria) can also come intrinsically from milk and may be important for imparting optimal fermentation, preservation, and hedonic characteristics. This has undoubtedly been the case for traditional cheese makers for centuries, and likely millennia.

[River Bottom Farm]

Thanks for the updated study Gort. I was under the same impression as Sailor on that one but I guess regardless of the source the point is the milk will have some amount of bacteria and yeast content. The issue is what bacteria and yeast and are they worth making a cheese with. Sounds like an interesting experiment.

How long does it take your milk in your climate to clabber (or reach a low enough pH to fight off competitor bacteria) due to a slower pH change in the cheese the possibility of contamination would be a bit of a gamble ( thus the typical added clabber starter to kick off the acid development and start with known edible bacteria). Also do you have a way to measure the cheese ph once pressed to determine when to brine or salt? The two different makes should reach optimal pH for the cheese at different times I would think

[GortKlaatu]

You're welcome RBF.
Here in the tropics, the temps are very conducive.
And yes, I use a pH meter regularly for my cheeses. (When I began using pH parameters instead of only times, the quality of my cheeses went up orders of magnitude.)