Homogenized milk vs skimmed milk + cream

[Al Lewis]

How do you know that is not UHT cream?  It just says pasteurized on the label.

Because they sell a UHT cream in the red container right next to it.  They sell both.

[H-K-J]

How do you know that is not UHT cream?  It just says pasteurized on the label.

Because they sell a UHT cream in the red container right next to it.  They sell both.

I use this same cream as Al says they sell both right next to each other and it makes great cheese

[stephmtl222]

Thanks for interesting replies.
I understand the problem of UHT pasteurization or even HTSH at too high temperature on curd formation as high temperature denature proteins, especially whey proteins that then will interact with caseins and impede a good curd formation. But homogeneization causes problem of its own, especially on texture and meltability of semi-ferm and ferm cheeses. So, since I already found HTST homogenized milk that form good curd, I was trying to find if I can improve the texture and meltability of certain cheeses. My last 8 months cheddar melt pretty well (a lot of proteolysis) and have a nice texture but meltability of my younger cheese, like my 2 1/2 months tomme could be improve. I think it could also have a positive effect on the texture of my full fat tomme. Also, before spending money on milk to make cheeses made especially for melting, like 16L of milk for raclette or for reblochon, I want to make sure that I'm working with the best milk combination possible.

From Duntov:

I have used UHT cream mixed with good quality milk and have had no problems so I would agree.

have you noticed any change in the texture or meltability of your cheese with this combination ?

I'll probably make a test soon. I'll keep you posted.

[Duntov]

Because they sell a UHT cream in the red container right next to it.  They sell both.

I was responding to stephmtl222 Al, the post just before mine.  Horizon Nature only shows one cream product.

I have not been able to find any Federal Labeling law that requires a ultra pasteurized milk product to be labeled as such.  In fact I know for sure that my local milk (Publix) uses standard pasteurization in their 1 gallon milk sizes but UHT in their quart sizes but neither says UHT.  So just because something doesn't say UHT doesn't mean it is not.

As a side note, any cream with additives (maybe to create a 'heavy' version) is considered a Class II product and is required to be UHT processed.  A milk product without additives is a Class I and does not require UHT.

[stephmtl222]

The results are in !
So I made a test to compare homogenized 3.25% fat microfiltrated (and HTST pasteurized) milk (HM) with skimmed (0% fat) microfiltrated (and HTST pasteurized) + cream to get to 3.25% fat (S+C), same brand. I added 180ml of cream (without additives) to the skim milk.
I made mozzarella (direct acidification) with each. I adjusted the pH of both to ~5.6 with citric acid.
Here are some observations:

• HM milk is white, S+C milk is yellowish
• I got a very firm curd with the S+C milk, one of the best curd in a long time. I got a very soft, flimsy curd with HM milk, one of the worst curd I got with this milk. I have made many very nice mozz with this milk. Don't really know what happened this time. This have had an impact on the final mozz.
• A lot of fat was lost in the S+C whey. Almost none in HM milk. I saw somewhere that the cream should be warmed before adding it. Maybe this can make a difference.
• Yield was substantially less with S+C. I planed to weight both cheese batches but realized that I forgot to weight it after I started tasting it.  The important lost of fat in the whey is probably to main cause of this low yield.
• The texture of the S+C was a lot fermer than with HM. The bad HM curd can be a factor since the texture was less firm, more brittle than usual
• S+C was a lot more tasty. HM was more bland, closer to milk. HM was white, S+C was yellowish.
• Both mozz soften and kind of melted. But the HM mostly collapsed more than melted. The texture of the melted HM didn't look like what we get with a good melting cheese. Very different, lumpy, and didn't form strings. Although part of this texture can be attributable to this particular batch of HM with bad curd, I observed this kind of softening without really melting in previous mozz. The S+C melted exactly like what you can expect from a good melting cheese, forming nice strings, fat sweating out.
• A lot of nice browning with S+C. Almost none in HM

Not a perfect experiment but for my part, I am convinced that H+C is a lot better. The only main problem is the yield. I'll try to find solution and probably won't use HM anymore.
Although I have made very nice cheeses with HM milk in the past, I realized that homogenization has an even more important impact on cheesemaking than I though. It will be difficult to go back to HM after that. 

[GortKlaatu]

That's a lot of investigation. AC4U!


There are still too many variables to know for sure which factors came into play most, especially since you had a different outcome with the HM than you usually do--but the bottom line is this: If you like the taste, texture, "meltability," etc of the cream added version you have an answer that you can move forward with.
Congrats

[stephmtl222]

You are one harsh peer reviewer ! 

I should add that I have made many mozz with this milk and some others and overall, despite the problem with this batch, its behavior (absence of browning, no string formation, softening without really melting) is very similar to what I have observed before. I have never seen a mozz batch that come close to the behavior of this S+C batch. I don't really see what variable could allow to get to this result with HM. Moreover, this fits with I have read on effect of homogenization on melting.

But maybe there is something else? I would be very interested to read suggestions on what other variables could lead to the results observed with S+C but with HM.

PS: I have been to Orosi Valley a couple of years ago. Very nice !  I am curious to know how it is to make cheese in Costa Rica !

[GortKlaatu]

Haha....not trying to be harsh. In fact, I'm impressed--that's why I gave you a cheese.
I'm happy you've found a method that you like and that has performed better for you than previous methods.

My point about unknown variables is just that, as you said: "[size=78%]I got a very soft, flimsy curd with HM milk, one of the worst curd I got with this milk. I have made many very nice mozz with this milk. Don't really know what happened this time." [/size][/size]shows that something happened that was different and unidentified--some negative fluke.  Maybe the S+C will perform the same way next time, or maybe it had a "positive fluke" this time. The good news is that to know for sure, you get to make lots more cheese--what could be better than that?  LOL[size=78%]


[/size]In Costa Rica, we have access to lots of fresh, raw milk.  That's the good news.  [size=78%]
[/size]The not so good news is that  1) the only culture available here is Flora Danica, so I have to import other cultures, and 2) the Ticos are afraid to try "old cheese" because "that's dangerous."  (They only know queso fresco--no aged cheeses.)[size=78%]

[Boofer]

Sweet little pictorial. Food for thought. I may try the skim milk + cream to see what it does in my cheese making. Certainly worth a cheese.

the Ticos are afraid to try "old cheese" because "that's dangerous."  (They only know queso fresco--no aged cheeses.)

Really? Wow, what a tremendous loss for their quality of cuisine and gustatory pleasure.

-Boofer-

[Al Lewis]

Yeah, the Mexicans are pretty much the same. I have a lot of Mexican friends and all they want to use is fresco cotija.

[feather]

Wow stephmtl222 you did an awesome job at documenting with pictures and narratives. Thank you! You answered many of my questions about using HM and SM+C. I'm going to have to give the SM+C a try in some provolone this week. I'm so looking forward to it.

[feather]

Wow stephmtl222 you did an awesome job at documenting with pictures and narratives. Thank you! You answered many of my questions about using HM and SM+C. I'm going to have to give the SM+C a try in some provolone this week. I'm so looking forward to it.

My skim milk was P&H and my cream was P&H and had the additive carageenan (Sp?) so I was not optimistic.
I used 3.5 gallons S + 6 cups of cream to make traditional provolone.
It was MAGIC I tell you, it made a different kind of curd than I'm used to (with whole P&H milk), then it stretched beautifully. The curds did not shatter at all, they became almost rubbery, and were rounded (through shrinkage), it was wonderful. I don't think I'll be able to go back to whole milk P&H after this experience. Thank you. I've got some beautiful smooth shiny stretched provolone!

[Curdlessness]

On one occasion, I was able to acquire some unhomogenized, low-heat slow pasteurized heavy cream for a  cheese. It cost me almost 8 bucks a pint, but it was well worth it. I used a few ounces for the cheese, and the rest on some fresh peaches from the tree in my yard.

[GortKlaatu]

And now you understand why we have our own milk source.  Basically (not counting my time, which has not meaningful calculable value here) my milk costs me about $0.50/gallon

[Gregore]

I think I will give this a try , my first year or so of making cheese I used raw and the curd was a delight to work with , but at $15 a gallon it became to much as I can get non raw organic for less than half of that .

I think I will try with adding raw cream in to the skim milk and see what the curd is like

It will be a nice experiment but I suspect that the cost might end up creeping back up close to the cost of raw again .

And there was nothing that compares to the subtle flavors of raw milk cheese . I still daydream about the grassy ,hay , countryside fragrance of my past cheeses .