PH issue with cheddar make

[Ptucker]

I have been having a problem with the PH rapidly falling during milling and pressing with cheddar makes. I have been trying to adjust the make to reach a final PH of 5.1. Attached is the make sheet if someone could look it over and see if there is anything else I could be doing. Much appreciated. Oh one more thing on the make sheet the pressing weight is using a pneumatic press so the actual weight is 3 lbs. = 16 lbs. 10 lbs. = 70 lbs. 20lbs = 140 lbs.

[GortKlaatu]

That's a great make sheet.


When you record the pH at 6.52 (with goal of 6.15-6.2) Are you metering the curd or the whey?  Because at that point it is the whey that should be at target of 6.15-6.2)
It is during cheddaring that the pH should get to 5.3 or so before you mill and salt. And regardless of time...you should cheddar until pH of 5.3 to 5.35 is reached.
(My point is that if you're metering pH of curd at 6.52 and not the whey, it will seem as though your pH has fallen more rapidly that you wanted when it really hasn't.)


Does that makes sense?
Thoughts?
P.S. I'd love to see some pictures. 

[Ptucker]

The PH reading is from the whey until milling then it is from the curd. If I wait until the whey PH is at 5.3 after cheddaring then I get a curd PH after final pressing @ 4.4 to 4.8 based on the last couple of makes. This is why I stopped  and salted at 5.45. This cheddar is doing the final press at the moment, when it is finished I will take a few pictures.

[GortKlaatu]

My very first thought,  when I saw you were using raw milk, was that you were probably using too much culture.  But then I saw that it seemed like you were using a small quantity. How much culture does the recipe call for and how much are you using relative to that?
(I only use raw milk and I have to use only 40% of the recommended recipe amount or I have terrible, rapid drops in pH and a crumbly, acid cheese)
But I was sure about the "prepackage" you mentioned....is that one of the New England packages? 

[Ptucker]

It called for 1 gram and I am using 1/2 that. Yes it was a New England packet. I have used MA100 in the past but have not used it in a while so it may be out of date. Attached are a few pictures I just took and the current PH reading. It still has several hours to go under high pressure and as you can see the PH is still dropping.

[Ptucker]

More Pictures

[GortKlaatu]

AWESOME pictures and what an AWESOME press.
AC4U for that!


Next question....are you sure your pH meter is reading correctly? Have you calibrated it recently?
That pH seems way too low to be possible at that stage of the game, so it makes me think it might be "off."


And BTW....I've found that when NE calls for one of their packets in 2-3 gallons of milk I have to change it to 1 packet in 6 gallons or there is just way to much acidification way too fast.

[Ptucker]

I just calibrated it before the make and checked it with an extech PH meter during the make. They were within 0.01/ 0.02 of each other. The acidification is slow at first but seems to run away during milling and pressing. I may try heating the milk to 145 degrees for 20 minutes and letting it cool back down to temp before adding starter. It may kill off some of the acidification making of the milk itself. I don't know what else to try.

[AnnDee]

Cheddar in a cooler temperature, I notice you Cheddar at 100F, that will accelarate the PH drop.

[GortKlaatu]

Ah...yes...I missed that. I think you may have hit upon it AnnDee.

[Ptucker]

I will try that next Saturday with a new make. What temperature do you recommend cheddaring at?

[Gregore]

The milks starting ph seems a little high to me ,  the first part of the make is taking  too long to get down to drain ph , caused either by milk that is too high in ph to start or has too much buffering ability thus the ph is dropping too slowely

I would try adding extra culture , or even a pre starter made the night before and added at 1.5 percent by weight.

[AnnDee]

I will try that next Saturday with a new make. What temperature do you recommend cheddaring at?

I do my cheddaring on 86F (30C), I usually reach PH by 1.5 hours or so.

[Ptucker]

The PH is typical of Holstein cows with a PH range of 6.8 to 6.9 depending on diet. The slow start on PH is due to me decreasing the amount of starter to try and control the final PH. I think AnnDee may be right on cheddar temp. I was holding the water bath at 100 degrees to get a good press and did not think about the temp impacting the PH. I will go back to my normal amount of starter to meet the PH targets during the make and decrease the temp during cheddaring to 86 degrees. I will report back Saturday evening after my next make. Thanks everyone.

[GortKlaatu]

Yes, raw Holstein is commonly around pH 6.8. 
I would be careful about increasingly your starter cultures too much since you're using raw milk and your other pH markers aren't too far off.
I'm sure it's the 100 temp at cheddaring that was your problem.
Best of luck! And keep us posted.