First post/Question

[Bob_H]

Hello I am new to the idea of making my own cheese and am still reading up on how it is done.
It all seems straight forward however I am having some trouble choosing between thermophilic and mesophilic culture.
As I understand it thermophilic cultures are defined by their ability to grow at temperatures above 40C.While the optimum growth range for mesophilic cultures is 30 - 35C.
The problem I am having is that when I read the recipes for ,as an example Parmesan the recipe calls for the use of a thermophilic culture (C201) with a temp around 90-95 C which seems to be at the high end of a  mesophilic culture.
Am I missing something?I should say at this point That I don't intend for my first cheese to be Parmesan I am simply trying to understand what governs the choice of cultures and temps.
I hope this is the right forum for this post.

[River Bottom Farm]

The type of cheese you intend to make dictates the type of culture you use.  Parm is a high temp (thermo) cheese because it is cooked long and high to create a dry curd that will age well for long periods of time. The high heat drives moisture out of the curd.

I would say you probably want to start out with meso culture cheeses that are slower and lower temp cooking to get a feel for temperature control and all the steps involved in making cheese.

[mikekchar]

Are you sure the Parmesan recipe calls for temps of 90-95 *C*?  That seems quite a bit too high.  Where are you getting the recipe from?

Basically, in terms of choice of culture, different cultures generate different flavours.  Mesophilic cultures tend to promote buttery flavours and over time generate flavours that you might associate with cheddar cheese.  Thermophilic cultures tend to go more towards nutty flavours.  Some recipes use both kinds of cultures.

In addition to the different flavours, the temperature that you cook the curds at determines both the acidity of the curds and the amount of whey (and even fat) that will be trapped in the curd.  Basically these things determines the kind of cheese you will make and very small changes tend to have rather large effects.  Without writing a book, I can't describe all of the different variations you can do.  You'll have to get some experience looking at different recipes and understanding why they are formulated that way.  But simply, some techniques require higher temperatures.  Normally you will use a thermophilic culture so that it survives the high temperature.  Some techniques require lower temperatures.  Normally you will use a mesophilic culture so that the cheese acidifies well enough at the low temperatures.

It's tempting to think that the different ingredients for cheese are responsible for the different styles of cheese, and while that is the case to a certain degree, it is also dramatically affected by the schedule of temperature rests and other techniques.  The difference between thermophilic and mesophilic cultures is kind of secondary to the necessity of using those cultures because of the choice of other technique and the temperature ranges you'll go through.

[TravisNTexas]

Welcome to the forum Bob!  Good luck with your cheese making endeavors.

You will find out that ultimately you will end up with many cultures are you expand to more and more recipes.  I suggest you just pick a couple of cheese recipes that you want to have a go at and get the cultures required for those recipes.

You may even want to start with something simple like Paneer.  You don't even need a culture to make Paneer since it's coagulated with lemon juice or citric acid, and it's ready to eat or cook with the day you make it.  I love it in Indian recipes so I make it a lot.

An easy cultured cheese that is a good starting cheese is Queso Fresco.  This one is slightly more complex in that it is renet coagulated and uses a meso culture.  You can add herbs or chilis to it as well for variety.

https://cheesemaking.com/collections/recipes/products/paneer-cheese-making-recipe

https://cheesemaking.com/collections/recipes/products/queso-fresco-cheese-making-recipe

[Bob_H]

Are you sure the Parmesan recipe calls for temps of 90-95 *C*?  That seems quite a bit too high.  Where are you getting the recipe from?

Basically, in terms of choice of culture, different cultures generate different flavours.  Mesophilic cultures tend to promote buttery flavours and over time generate flavours that you might associate with cheddar cheese.  Thermophilic cultures tend to go more towards nutty flavours.  Some recipes use both kinds of cultures.

In addition to the different flavours, the temperature that you cook the curds at determines both the acidity of the curds and the amount of whey (and even fat) that will be trapped in the curd.  Basically these things determines the kind of cheese you will make and very small changes tend to have rather large effects.  Without writing a book, I can't describe all of the different variations you can do.  You'll have to get some experience looking at different recipes and understanding why they are formulated that way.  But simply, some techniques require higher temperatures.  Normally you will use a thermophilic culture so that it survives the high temperature.  Some techniques require lower temperatures.  Normally you will use a mesophilic culture so that the cheese acidifies well enough at the low temperatures.

It's tempting to think that the different ingredients for cheese are responsible for the different styles of cheese, and while that is the case to a certain degree, it is also dramatically affected by the schedule of temperature rests and other techniques.  The difference between thermophilic and mesophilic cultures is kind of secondary to the necessity of using those cultures because of the choice of other technique and the temperature ranges you'll go through.

Oops I meant  90-95 f

[awakephd]

Bob, welcome to the forum! I'll echo what others have said, including that 90-95°C (=194-203°F) would be WAY too hot for anything other than ricotta, and rather hot even for that. Meanwhile, 90-95°F (=32-35°C) would be way too low for the *final* temperature of a parmesan ... but it would be a likely possible *starting* temperature for allowing it to ripen and coagulate. Generally you will then heat ("cook") the curds, after cutting them, to a final temperature of, say 124-126°F (=51-52°C).

In addition to paneer as a starter cheese, you may want to make a simple fresh cheese of no particular name:

Heat 2 gallons (8l) of milk to ~86°F (30°C). If using pasteurized & homogenized milk (but NOT ultra-pasteurized - never use that!), add around 1/2 tsp of calcium chloride solution (optional, will help to strengthen the curds). Sprinkle on around 1/4 tsp (1.25 ml) mesophilic culture; wait 5 minutes, then stir it in. Let the milk sit for around 60 minutes. Dilute around 1/4-3/8 tsp (1.25-2 ml) of liquid animal rennet in 1/4 cup (60 ml) distilled (non-chlorinated) water. Pour into milk and mix in thoroughly, with an up-and-down motion, for no more than 1 minute. Let the milk sit still for 60 minutes. Milk should be well coagulated and have a "clean break." Cut the curd into 1/2" (12mm) cubes and let rest for 5-10 minutes. Gently stir for 15-30 minutes to expel some whey from the curds. (Longer stirring = drier final product.) Allow curds to settle for 5 minutes. Ladle out as much whey as possible, then drain the curds into a fine-weave basket form. (You can also use a regular mold lined with cheese cloth, or just a colander lined with cheese cloth.) Let it drain well. If in a basket or mold, flip from time to time once it is firm enough to handle. If using colander and cheesecloth, you will want to start pulling the cheesecloth up and twisting it after the first 15 minutes or so to begin forming it into a nice flattened round. You may also need to tie the cheesecloth and put a plate and a small amount of weight (a can of beans) on top. Let it rest for 12 hours or overnight from the time of draining. Spread ~2 tsp (10 ml, around 13 g) of kosher salt (can use regular salt if you don't have kosher, but non-iodized is best) on top, and move it to the fridge. Make sure it is in a container that can catch whey that will expel due to the salt. Let it sit for ~12 hours. Drain any accumulated whey, then flip and spread ~2 tsp of salt on the other side, and let it sit another 12 hours. It is now ready to eat, but will add taste if you let it "age" for a few more days.

If you can make the above, you are ready to take on aged cheeses - though at that point you will want some sort of press.

[whatisboom]

Also to add to this, some cheese call for both types of culture to *in essence* give you dead/inactive bacteria cells so when they die, you get the benefits of their enzyme release without over-acidifying the cheese during ripening. So adding thermo cultures to a meso temp cheese will have less acid/more enzymatic activity.