Crottin Draining Questions

[soniaR]

I made Crottin 5 days ago: store bought goat milk, 1 gallon. I have 4 Crottin forms, two of one style (, two another slightly different (B). See photos. When ladling the curd into the forms in thin layers (as per Caldwell recipe), I filled them all in exactly the same manner, paying no attention to which were A and which were B. Obviously, B is a little taller so they got a little more curd since I heaped curd on top as best I could.

Forms A have more draining holes than forms B so I expected them to drain and firm up faster. But it was the opposite. In general all 4 were pretty soft and could not be flipped for 12 hours without turning to mush, but B were definitely firmer than A, and today, after 2 days of drying and now going into ripening box, A are still softer. Any ideas why this would be?

I'm also wondering why in general all 4 were so moist. Is it possible that in spite of the clean break (although not really coming away from edges), the curd was not firm enough? I waited for a clean break and pH of 4.5.

Thanks!   

[SOSEATTLE]

Crottin style is my favorite cheese to make, so make it fairly frequently when I can get the milk (farmer's markets have been closed recently). Once I fill the molds I let it sit overnight and don't attempt to flip until then. It can be 18-20 hours. The curd tends to be way to full of moisture until then. I flip it once and then let it sit overnight again. I'm not sure why one mold is less dry than the other, but I do notice a little difference in shape that may have something to do with it. My crottin molds are all the same and tend to be taller and narrower. Perhaps that forces the curd to apply more weight upon itself and forces it to drain more efficiently.


Susan

[soniaR]

Thanks. That did go through my mind, that the slightly taller mold had more weight so forced the drain more. I do think I rushed too much in flipping them, and next time will do as you do with flips over the course of two nights if needed. They have now settled in nicely in their 5th day in a ripening box and all four seem to be the same level of firmness. I really like the Crottin, too, both to eat and to make. Thanks again!

[SOSEATTLE]

I wish you the best of luck on your crottin. I would love to see some pictures. 




Susan

[soniaR]

Since you are more experienced, maybe you can give me some insight on my Crottins. The photo below is how they look after 6 days in the ripening box. I think the white growth has peaked. For some reason, I never get a truly snowy white growth (in any of my bloomy rinds). When I opened the box this morning, the smell told me I should wrap them. I do have trouble keeping the humidity stable -- it varies from 90 to 99 throughout the day. The temp was at 52F.

I think the only way these are going to age further is to get creamy. I've read they can age much longer and get drier and more intense in flavor, which I would like. (Creamy is fine too; I like both.) But I don't think that's going to happen.

What is the recipe/method you've had with the most success? Any tips you can offer?

Thanks!

[SOSEATTLE]

My first impression is that they are ripening too fast. I had the same issue when I first started making crottin style. For me the aging works much better at a lower temperature. Some people here start their bloomy rinds at a higher temperature (50s F) until the white mold covers the cheeses then move to a regular refrigerator for the remainder of the aging. My personal method is to age them entirely at 46 degrees F (the lowest temp. my wine cooler will go). I typically age for about 4-6 weeks and use a ripening box with damp paper towels to increase humidity in the bottom under the matting. I flip and pat down the mold on a daily basis for the first couple weeks, then less frequently-every couple days after that. I find this also helps spread the mold around.

What mold cultures are you using? I typically use both PC and Geo., but have at times just used one or the other to experiment. They seem to help each other out when used together.





Susan

[soniaR]

It sounds like you have found a ripening method that really works for you with the lower temp. Do you get a nice layer of white mold? I'd love to see a photo if you have one. Yesterday before your reply I had the idea to lower the temp two degrees to 50F, and already it smelled less strong when I opened the box this morning. I have now lowered it to 46F and will put off wrapping. Maybe that's the magic number. If it works for you, it might work for me! I don't think I have anything to lose. I definitely need to slow things down, and next time I make these (or Cams, which I do, too), I will start the ripening at a lower temp.

I use Geo and PC, although this time I see no squiggly mold yet, which I believe is the Geo. Maybe that comes later, assuming everything starts going better (don't know if these will recover). I hope I can leave these to ripen longer now. They are still quite firm. I just looked at the dates on my Geo and PC and see one has a best by date of March 2019, and the other July 2019. Maybe it's time to replace, although this is pretty much how my bloomy rinds have always been.

Thanks for your input. I really appreciate it.

[mikekchar]

The squiggles only happen with some strains for geo.  Some of them are powdery.  Which one are you using?

[soniaR]

I have GEO 15 LYO 2D.

Unfortunately, my Crottin (with ash) have turned a rather unsightly shade of gray-ish. Not very appetizing. They were already like this, but I just discovered that my cave plug got loose and was off for possibly as much as 24 hours, with a ripening box temp of 59F. The sides of the cheeses are quite soft now. I don't see much hope for these and wonder if we should just start eating them now. Good thing I didn't promise one to anyone!

This is very disheartening because I was hoping to move on to a washed rind cheese but if I can't master a bloomy rind, I don't think I'm ready!

[SOSEATTLE]

Sorry Sonia that I haven't gotten back sooner. Had some work/life issues that came up. Fortunately avoided layoff for now.

Here are a couple photos of my cheeses. One was done with ash, the other not. I believe the one without ash was done just with Geo. for the surface mold. I do usually get a good covering of the white molds I use (PC Neige and Geo. 17). These cheeses are typical of how mine turn out.





Susan

[MacGruff]

Hey Susan,

Both links give me a "404" error saying they cannot be found???   

[SOSEATTLE]

I will try this again. Google Photos apparently like to refuse to make things public.

[MacGruff]

Those are absolutely gorgeous!

Thanks for sharing.

AC4U!

[soniaR]

Those are beautiful, Susan. Thanks for posting. I wish I could make Crottins like that!

I decided to get my hands dirty and remove the skin from my disasters so I could at least salvage the cheese. It was pretty easy given the slip skin. The cheese is now spreadable with really good flavor. The inner part of the ones that were firmer to begin with were still sort of firm, the others totally runny. So at least we're enjoying them. Not sure where to go from here with my bloomy rinds, but I'm not giving up!

[SOSEATTLE]

Thank you. Edible and enjoyable are good things. I think you just have to develop you own style for the conditions and equipment/supplies that you have. Learning is painful, but worth it in the end when things click. I had to experiment myself before I finally was able to get consistent results. Yes, don't give up.



Susan