Hi from London, UK

[cheeseboard]

Hi all, armed similar to some other posters with a Mad Millie kit, I've started to make cheese, with very mixed results so far.

Batch 1. Primo sale. Basic cheese. Worked, got some cheese. Its about a week old....and its edible, but how shall I say, has no flavour, like eating butter. Will it mature with time ?
Batch 2. Trying to make a round cheese, sadly, the cheese didn't set. It was all liquid.
Batch 3. As per batch 2, nothing set.

I really want to make a caciocavallo, that's what my parents used to make, has a pear shape.
Also, a cheese in the shape of a wheel, I got my mould about 14cm diameter, ready. We used to have this one on pasta when we were kids, its like a parmesan. I think my parents called it parmeggiano, so to them, it was a parmesan substitute. It was very nice.

Regards the rennet not setting on batch 2 & 3, I have no idea why it didn't work, batch 2 & 3 I took to a high temperature, 90C, then down to 38-40C when you add the rennet. I'm really hoping that I can learn what went wrong, before I have another crack at anything !

[m4rek]

Hello, your 1st attempt was heated to 90c too? 90c is too much. For pasteurisation you should keep 65celsius for 30 minutes. What kind of rennet you use in 2nd and 3rd attempt? What kind of cultures you use?

[cheeseboard]

Hi there, the 1st attempt which worked was to 37C, add rennet. Leave for 1 Hour. Get to 50-55C

The rennet tablets are from the Mad Millie kit.
I didn't use any cultures.

Attempts 2 & 3 were to 90C, then quickly get down to 38-40C, add rennet.

Probably I should make the mozzarella and the other cheeses as per pack instructions, before running ?

[m4rek]

I never warm up milk to 90c (its almost boiling) You kill all bacteria, or maybe You add too little ammount rennet. What milk You use? Fresh or store-bought? Look at my YouTube channel (eng. Subtitles) and try some easy recipes.

[mikekchar]

Hello and welcome!  Probably my message will seem a bit negative, but it's really just that I have a lot to say and not much time to type.  It's super awesome to see new people on this forum :-)

Milk will never set with rennet if you heat it over 72 C.  Even then you would have to cool it *very* quickly to make cheese easily.  I *highly* recommend watching some videos from Gavin Webber to learn the basics first: https://www.youtube.com/user/greeningofgavin  Actually m4rek has awesome videos as well, but as they have less instruction, I think you'll be better off with Gavin Webber first.

But a few pointers: You don't need to heat your milk above the initial temperature in the recipe.  The only reason to heat it higher is if you want to pasteurise your milk (because you are using raw milk).  Some people get confused and think that they should follow the same things they do for making yogurt.  It doesn't really work like that (for reasons that a quite complex to explain without getting into a lot of chemistry).

Second, mozzarella and cacio cavello are difficult cheeses to make.  The recipes you will find the Mad Millie kits for mozzarella may or may not work for you depending on your milk.  Mozzarella requires getting the acidity *exactly* right.  Unfortunately the acidity you need depends on the milk you are using and will differ between suppliers and even the season.  I think it is incredibly irresponsible to sell kits for this to beginners who may have complete failures with no idea what went wrong.  I'm actually pretty much anti-Mad Millie.  The rennet they sell is *incredibly* weak (60 IMCU versus the standard 200 IMCU), which means you need more than 3 times as much rennet as any other rennet on the market.  And to make it worse, their recipes all tell you to use *much* less than you actually need.  The recipes *will* work, but not very well.  I would avoid them in the future -- very, very expensive products that don't work very well unless you completely ignore the instructions.

Third, your cheeses will be bland without starter culture.  You will have no acidity in the cheese.  Also, you can't age it safely because it is not acidic enough.  It also won't have the enzymes it needs to develop flavour.

My advice is to make something like a feta cheese or halloumi cheese (I *really* recommend halloumi even though it has an extra step -- it's *so* awesome).  Once you get some experience, you can try some more challenging cheeses and eventually you will be able to make amazing cacio cavello (I still haven't managed it yet ;-) ).  Also, perhaps pick up a book on cheese making to help you with the basics.  I haven't read this book, but I really like Gianaclis Caldwell and I've heard it's a great beginner book: https://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Basic-Cheesemaking-Fundamentals-Making/dp/0865718180  Unfortunately a bit pricey, though...

Failing that, check out cheesemaking.com's "Getting Started" instructions: https://cheesemaking.com/pages/cheese-making-123.

Good luck and I hope your setbacks don't discourage you.  It's just a matter of gathering the information and experience :-)

[MacGruff]

Welcome to the board and the life of making cheese!!!

I would like to second Mikechar's advice. While i have no experience with the Mad Millie kit, I tried making Mozzarella from kits sold in the United States with complete lack of success. After three times I gave up on that style of cheese.

What keeps me going is that in between my Mozz failures I picked up a couple of recipes for a farmer's cheese and a feta cheese. Both of which I made, and both of which came out fantastic. So, I knew that it was not me ... it was just that I needed to navigate this new world a bit more carefully.

I've been learning a lot ... and sharing my failures on this board - so feel free to search under my name for some of what NOT DO TO!!!   

I have also had many successes - Feta, Halloumi, Colby, Farmer's Cheese, Paneer. Now I am trying to master Tomme. I am still learning and am picking up techniques and tools. I am going along the lines of trying to make what I like. I suggest you do the same. Mozz? I will buy it as I noticed that every place I see showing them "making" it, they always start from commercial curds and just warm them up. hint hint hint...     

Good luck to you and do not get discouraged.

[cheeseboard]

Hi everyone, thanks for those great tips, I think it will help me get on the cheese motorway......

m4rek - I was following this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iW8JI6DkxE but now I see he's using raw milk from a farm. So probably (definitely?) I don't need to take the milk to 90°C as am using shop bought milk. Right, that explains a lot. I did look at your parmesan video, so good you got English subtitles, your cheese is perfect I have to watch it a few times before I have another go. Its exactly what I had in mind......

Mike - Good to hear from you and I saw this Gavin Webber, so I will look at him again. There's a lot of videos out there, you have to have a tip which one is a good one.
Regards the Mad Millie, I know its a "toy" and am well used to simple things in my own profession, where the kids get a bit of knowledge and suddenly they think they know everything !! But Mad Millie cost me £ 15 incl delivery, and it includes a cooking thermometer, which is about £ 8, so £ 7 covers the rennet and the various other bits in there. Coupled with the fact, you will have a go, once you got the box, its not such a bad investment. Yes, if I am using it i 1 years time, that will be embarrassing, as I would have learnt nothing ! The rennet strength I don't know how to measure that, but there's 10 tablets you're given and the 1st one worked really well. The 2nd and 3rd never worked, but probably as I spoilt the shop bought milk taking it to 90°C......so 7 left and going to be careful.

I have no idea what's this starter culture, so I will watch a few more videos. That's a fair point as the "toy" is not guiding me in that direction, that deeper flavours will come from cultures, whatever they are. M4rek also asked what cultures am I using, so that's where this cheese forum will massively help me, something that never crossed my mind. All I know is my mum used to make it and I don't recall her having cultures, don't know where we would buy them in the 1970's to be honest. Now we got the internet, its doable.

So I am going to have a crack at feta and then halloumi as they are both lovely and they must be simpler if they are good ones to start me off.

I am not at all discouraged and thanks for guiding me on my journey !

MacGruff, I do think then I am in the right place to learn.  I've had great success with home made beer in this lockdown and mushrooms, so I am well up for another home-made adventure.

[cheeseboard]

Hi all, I don't know exactly where to post this........so I'll do it here.

I am going to start with simple cheese, feta, hallomi. So I can learn.
But I really want to make parmesan, caciocavallo and provolone.

So I need to buy some ingredients. Is there anything I need to add onto the below shopping list, and anything I should bear in mind when ordering these items:

• Lipase
• Thermophilic Starter Culture
• Calcium Chloride
• Citric acid
• Rennet

[m4rek]

I would also buy mesophilic cultures (for example for feta cheese) You will see that they will be useful when you get started. I don't know if you have any molds and cheesecloth

[cheeseboard]

Oh yes cheesecloths ! Got to get some of those much appreciated.

For moulds I bought some round moulds (14.2cm x 13cm x 8.5cm (h)) for the parmesan. As they were rip-off prices in the UK, I got them from an Italian company, polsinelli.it and even with the delivery cost, its way less than GB prices. I bought some extra and put them on ebay, at the 6x mark-up but no bites so far !

I also got a small round one already with the Mad Millie kit, its terribly small, but it will be fine for Feta & Halloumi i think.