Natural rind development, humidy and preparation questions

[ialkohme]

Morning All

A newbie looking for advice on finishing natural rind.  The attached is Caldwell milled curd allowed to mature for 6 weeks which was turned daily and some patting down of the molds.  The humidity range, according to 2 metres, was 85 - 99 % (probably inaccurate as hardly any condensation).

Q1 - At this stage prior to preparing to eat, what is the recommended approach to the rind?  Do you brush the mould off (cloth/nail brush) and let it mature a bit longer, or eat after brushing off? 

Q2 - During the maturing process, does it make a difference if the rind is brushed every few days vs a single brush at the end?

Q3 - Plenty of information on how to increase humidity, but are there recommendations for reducing it?  I have no condensation in the fridge so I'm not convinced that humidity was really 99 % for so long.

If you are able to tell which moulds/fungi/yeasts then that would be a great help!

Any recommended reading for developing and maintaining natural rind would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance

[mikekchar]

Looks good!  Is it cloth bound?  It seems like it might be.  If so, my understanding is that the correct way to cut it is to cut out wedges while it is still in the cloth and peal it off the wedges.  Apparently it can be hard to get it all off otherwise.  I've never done a cloth bound cheese, so I'm not sure.  I can't remember where I read it, but some people say that it's not really beneficial to cloth bind a cheese unless you want to age it over a year.  In that case, the cloth helps retain some moisture.

Once the cheese has full mold coverage, it pretty much takes care of itself in my experience.  As the cheese ages, it gives off water and so a big part of the water source in the cave is dwindling -- it will naturally reduce the humidity.  I tend to age my cheeses in maturation boxes.  The cheese fridge is not humid enough and I'm not really into the gymnastic necessary to maintain a good humidity.  With a maturation box, you have a lot more control because the moisture in the box comes from the air and the cheese.  If you need to you can open up the box for a few hours and let the cheese dry out a bit.  But as long as you don't dry out the rind too much, once it is fully covered, it's pretty easy.  The hard part is trying to avoid blue in the initial rind (where it can get into the paste).

Anyway, I don't brush my cheeses at all, ever.  Just eat the rind.  So far all my rinds have tasted really good.  Some molds can be bitter, but I haven't gotten any of them yet.  There are quite a lot of natural rind treatments and there isn't only one way, but it would take a very long time to write up all of the approaches.  One day I will try  (after I try them all ;-) ).

As for mold identification, it's pretty much impossible from a picture.  You've got a lot of stuff growing there.  I think I recognise a few things, but I could easily be wrong.  Again, one of these days, I'm going to put together a set of pictures with typical molds growing on cheeses.  I'm really surprised such a thing doesn't already exist (if it does, I'd love to see it!)

Anyway, there aren't that many of us natural rind lovers in the home cheese making world.  It's a very deep and interesting art and very little is written about it.  I wish I could type more, but it's my bed time now :-)  But I think mostly you need to just make a lot of cheese.  Eventually you'll figure out what works best for you and your cave.

[Bantams]

For natural rinds you'll want to brush them down twice a week, then weekly once the rinds are more stable (several months out). Letting the mold grow unchecked creates a thick rind that leads to a more ammoniated smell/taste - quite undesirable.  A regularly brushed rind will be nice and thin.
I personally don't eat them but some do.

Usually it's really difficult to get a fridge to hold adequate humidity so I suspect you're fine if you haven't observed any condensation.

Here's a natural brushed rind Tomme, at about 2 months and then 4-5.

[ialkohme]

Looks good!  Is it cloth bound?  It seems like it might be.  If so, my understanding is that the correct way to cut it is to cut out wedges while it is still in the cloth and peal it off the wedges.  Apparently it can be hard to get it all off otherwise.  I've never done a cloth bound cheese, so I'm not sure.  I can't remember where I read it, but some people say that it's not really beneficial to cloth bind a cheese unless you want to age it over a year.  In that case, the cloth helps retain some moisture.

Once the cheese has full mold coverage, it pretty much takes care of itself in my experience.  As the cheese ages, it gives off water and so a big part of the water source in the cave is dwindling -- it will naturally reduce the humidity.  I tend to age my cheeses in maturation boxes.  The cheese fridge is not humid enough and I'm not really into the gymnastic necessary to maintain a good humidity.  With a maturation box, you have a lot more control because the moisture in the box comes from the air and the cheese.  If you need to you can open up the box for a few hours and let the cheese dry out a bit.  But as long as you don't dry out the rind too much, once it is fully covered, it's pretty easy.  The hard part is trying to avoid blue in the initial rind (where it can get into the paste).

Anyway, I don't brush my cheeses at all, ever.  Just eat the rind.  So far all my rinds have tasted really good.  Some molds can be bitter, but I haven't gotten any of them yet.  There are quite a lot of natural rind treatments and there isn't only one way, but it would take a very long time to write up all of the approaches.  One day I will try  (after I try them all ;-) ).

As for mold identification, it's pretty much impossible from a picture.  You've got a lot of stuff growing there.  I think I recognise a few things, but I could easily be wrong.  Again, one of these days, I'm going to put together a set of pictures with typical molds growing on cheeses.  I'm really surprised such a thing doesn't already exist (if it does, I'd love to see it!)

Anyway, there aren't that many of us natural rind lovers in the home cheese making world.  It's a very deep and interesting art and very little is written about it.  I wish I could type more, but it's my bed time now :-)  But I think mostly you need to just make a lot of cheese.  Eventually you'll figure out what works best for you and your cave.

Hi

Thanks for the info.  This isn't cloth bound but guess the cheese cloth imprint still shows.  Hopefully you'll get time soon to put rind mold/fungi/yeasts pictures together as some reference.  For the home maker interested in natural rind development they would be an interesting resource.

[ialkohme]

For natural rinds you'll want to brush them down twice a week, then weekly once the rinds are more stable (several months out). Letting the mold grow unchecked creates a thick rind that leads to a more ammoniated smell/taste - quite undesirable.  A regularly brushed rind will be nice and thin.
I personally don't eat them but some do.

Usually it's really difficult to get a fridge to hold adequate humidity so I suspect you're fine if you haven't observed any condensation.

Here's a natural brushed rind Tomme, at about 2 months and then 4-5.

Those rinds look great.  The information you provided is also helpful and as I have a couple of new cheeses in the cave I think I'll do some A/B testing of the rind care and see how they diverge over time.

What type of brush do you start with when the cheese is relatively soft?  Will a nail brush be too stiff even when used gently?

Cheers

[Bantams]

I just use my hands (in latex gloves). Or a cloth.
A brush is better but the sanitation aspect worries me as a commercial cheesemaker. A nail brush is too stiff - you'll want something a little softer to start. You want to brush/flick away from you, like you're dusting off the wheel.

[ialkohme]

I just use my hands (in latex gloves). Or a cloth.
A brush is better but the sanitation aspect worries me as a commercial cheesemaker. A nail brush is too stiff - you'll want something a little softer to start. You want to brush/flick away from you, like you're dusting off the wheel.

Thanks.  On an earlier cheese I used a brush but thought it was bit hard, but without experience, I wasn't sure so swapped between using a cloth and brush.  Ultimately I think this compromised the rind development.

Cheers

[Bantams]

You should be able to switch to a brush - even a pretty stiff one - now that the rind is established and firm. Some people use horse grooming brushes - they come in a variety of textures.

[ialkohme]

You should be able to switch to a brush - even a pretty stiff one - now that the rind is established and firm. Some people use horse grooming brushes - they come in a variety of textures.

Thanks.  The horse brush is a unexpectedly good recommendation!  Off to my local supplier tomorrow.