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Introducing myself and question to experts

Started by nvanremo, February 02, 2021, 12:13:39 AM

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nvanremo

Hi fellow cheesemakers,

I am a newbie amateur cheesemaker from Belgium.
Last week I made my first attempt at making a bloomy rind Camembert style cheese by the use of Penicillum Candidum mold culture
added to the cultured milk (starting from raw cows milk + buttermilk + cream with starter culture).
After letting the cheese curds settle in a basket mold and brining for 3 hours in a saturated brine solution, I rested the cheese in a closed and temperature controlled environment at 13C and 93% relative humidity for the penicillum mold to cover the surface of the cheese.
After 1 week f maturation, the result is seen in the attached picture: https://imgur.com/a/gJnkjgd

First off: the mold development is slow and the cheese feels wet (not soeaked but relatively sticky surface)
Secondly, I notice a few patches of a wiry like network of mold doted with tiny dark specs 9see bottom of image, that look like mold spores or spore sacks.
I would ke to know if this is a recognizable initial state of Penicillium Candidum growth or rather a sign of a possible malignent intrusive mold species.
Any experts opinions?

Besides my concern, the aroma of the ripening cheese is not of off-putting: It is pleasantly nutty and ushroom like and a bit fruity.
Should I worry about further developments of unwanted and possible harmful mold, or rest assured that the Penicillium Candidum is the only dominant mold on the cheese and will outgrow/outcompete any other intrusive molds?
What are telltale signs of unwanted and harmful mold intrusion (smell appearance)?
What can I do to enhance the white bloomy Pencillum mold to develop earlier, and more prominently?

Thanks,

Nick

Does it show the update after 2 weeks?
https://imgur.com/a/F9moaz0

mikekchar

I responded on reddit, but I'll say the same thing here :-).  I think you almost certainly over salted the cheese.  This will slow down the PC and in some cases will cause it not to grow well.  You can also up the temp a bit at the beginning (until the cheese is covered with mold).  I've found that I like the flavour that doing this provides.  After that it should go in the normal fridge so that you don't produce ammonia too quickly and liquify the cheese just under the rind.

Generally speaking, you don't have to worry about other things growing on that style of cheese.  PC is an absolute beast.  It will outcompete anything.  Someone mentioned on reddit that mucor can be a problem, but it's only actually a problem if you care that your cheese is not snow white.  In fact, apparently before 1970 mucor was a *defining feature* of Camembert and was one of the things that distinguished it from other bloomy rinds.  Then, for some reason, all the producers decided not to allow it.  I occasionally get some blue on my bloomy rinds, but I completely ignore it because I know that the PC will eat it for lunch.  It *is* an indication that the humidity is too high, though.  You should back it off a bit.  The other thing that can happen is brevibacterium linens (orange, stinky bacteria).  If the humidity is too high, it may grow on the rind.  If it happens, back off the humidity fairly aggressively.  But a little bit of b. linens will just make a more interesting rind.

Your picture looks pretty typical to me, so probably it will be just fine :-)

Bantams

I agree it looks like/sounds like mucor, though I'm having a hard time making out the details in the image.
Mucor occurs when the cheese is too wet, usually undersalted too. I'm going to guess that the cheese is damp enough that only Geo and mucor want to grow.
I think your cheese was too wet to begin with - a drier aging environment won't necessarily be able to correct it at this point.
While mucor itself may not be a problem, excessive Geo and mucor growth  w/o Pen C indicates a bigger problem with the base cheese.
Mucor spreads really easily so always use sanitized equipment and sanitize your hands (or wear gloves) every time you flip. Often you'll see it growing right where you place your fingers when flipping the wheels. 

Don't give up! Soon you'll figure out the correct curd consistency, draining duration, temperature, etc and have beautiful white rinds!

mikekchar

I didn't know that mucor needed less salt!  Hmm... something to consider for my tommes :-) It will be interesting so see what the salt level is like when it is tasted... hmm...

nvanremo

Hi all,

Thank you so much for your valuable insights.
I'n  the meantime I can say that the PC mold is developing further gradually (though slow), but the smell out of the ripening box is devine: very nutty/fruity.
I also made a batch of 2 new Camemberts this sunday and improved 2 things:
- Making a firmer curd set
- Salting by hand with moderate quatities after 48 hours

So let's see how these two start to develop. I'll keep you guys informed about the general progress.

Bantams

Mucor may be suited to a wide range of salt levels but in my experience it plagues the undersalted wetter bloomy batches. Of course undersalting and too wet usually go hand in hand, so I'm not exactly sure.

Good luck with your next round!

nvanremo

Just a quick update on the Camembert.
After 2 weeks it is starting to age nicely, see picture for the current state.

https://imgur.com/a/F9moaz0