pH too high at draining

[Chetty]

Its probably out of most people's price range for a home cheese making standpoint but there is a testing system you can use I've used it to figure out what cows on our dairy were trouble.  https://nelsonjameson.com/PORTASCC-COW-TEST-KIT-96-TESTS-KIT-p61524.html

There's also the California  mastitis test that is more reasonably priced and easy to use. 

There not exact like a lab would have but they give you a good idea.

Just putting those out there

[Zapacat]

Hi Chetty,

Oh those look promising! It looks like there are smaller kits which might fit for small farmers if they have a long expiration date.
I did do a CMT (normal) but wasn't sure how sensitive it was.

Cheers,
Teresa

[Zapacat]

Here is my second attempt.

I followed the recipe as before; pH at draining was 6.7. Because I cant find any targets for draining pH for lancashire, i just went ahead and cheddared.
I cheddared until pH was 5.91 (I meant to do it at 6 but it started going down rapidly after it hit 6.2 so missed that) which took 1hr 45 mins then milled, salted, hooped and pressed. The curd was a very different texture at milling, much more what I imagine it is supposed to be at that pH. Moist without "chicken breast meat" striations.

Final weight 1.4kg so close to what I was supposed to get for yield.

I feel like after many attempts, I finally have made an actual style of cheese instead of just cheese. 

Teresa

[Chetty]

Good looking cheese congrats on your success. 

[Bantams]

Beautiful - nice job!!

[Zapacat]

Thanks you both! 

Teresa

[scasnerkay]

Though not my own cow, the farm where I volunteer typically has one cow that I am milking at any given time. It is interesting to see the differences in the milk from the different cows, and to see how the milk changes as they progress through the year or so of lactation, and season.

I have had a sort of similar experience with Henrietta's milk this cycle. Here is the long-ish story....

The Jersey cow being milked presently is about 2 months into lactation. She did have problems with clogged ducts at first, and some inflammation in two of her quarters. About 1 week after delivery, the first make I tried started at 6.6 pH, and had a firm set of the curd, with flocculation at 12 minutes, and a huge yield. Draining pH had been on target.

The next make was about 3 weeks later. On that make the start pH had jumped to 6.85, curd set was much more weak, and the flocculation took 28 minutes. Yield was closer to 10%. On another make a couple of days later the initial pH was 7, so I used extra starter, and extra rennet, and still had similar results.

I contacted the farmer, who then sent a sample off to be tested, and it came back positive for staph in one quarter. The CMT paddle test had not picked anything up.

After antibiotic treatment of that quarter had cleared, the milk I brought home was still testing high ( over 7) and my yogurt make had very thing set. So another sample was sent off, with the test showing positive for staph in another quarter! Antibiotic treatment proceeded for all 4 quarters.

To this week.... The milk is 10 days post completion of antibiotic, so safe to use, and clear for bacteria on repeated test.  Initial pH was 6.85. I used about 50% extra starter, and more rennet than usual for the volume of milk. I ripened a bit longer than usual, flocculation was still long at 26 minutes, and stirring was longer and more gentle than usual. Draining pH was still higher than desired (6.65 versus 6.4). Final yield was 2.5# from 2 gallons.
I am hoping the milk will "normalize" in the coming weeks.

There are other elements to this story that I am trying to understand...
The calf has been left with the mama for suckling as desired. The cow is milked once a day, usually around 10 - 11 a.m. Her production on once a day milking (with a machine) continues to be very high - almost 4 gallons. So I am thinking this is a lot of stress on her udder tissues, and is perhaps a cause of the higher pH.

It turns out that the calf has been going to another cow for her milk! The other cow was supposed to have been dried off, but still seems to think she is the mama for the calf! Mama #2 has very fatty milk anyway, and so the calf probably likes her milk better as well!
So now an effort is being made to keep the calf and mama #2 apart from each other, and the calf should be nursing more from Henrietta, which to my thinking should help decrease the stress on her udder.

Regarding the milk and the cheese making process, my goals will be to test start pH, adjust cultures accordingly, likely increase the rennet amount, stir more gently for a longer time if needed, and accept a bit higher than desired pH on draining.
On the few makes I did in the past month, the pH in the press was much faster than desired even though draining pH was high. I think once the buffering capacity is overcome, the bacterial growth seemed to go really fast.

The CMT testing is still not showing any sign of problems. I believe the samples sent were tested only for bacterial growth.

I hope you will post more results with your cheese making efforts Teresa!

[Bantams]

Was it Staph Aureus, or CNS (environmental coagulase negative Staph)?
At 10 days post treatment I would still expect a bit of inflammation/high SCC and the culture would almost certainly be negative because it is so soon after treatment.
If possible I would have them send off quarter samples for SCC. If any are high, reculture those ones in a couple weeks.

Hoping it's not Staph A as that is near impossible to eradicate (and contagious, so calves can spread it between cows).

She might be a poor candidate for once-a-day milking if she is overly full and having bouts of mastitis. Some cows just can't handle that much stress on the udder.

I don't know how much sway you have since she's not your cow, but a lab SCC test for each quarter would be really handy.

[Susan38]

Yes Teresa, Susan, Chetty, and Bantams...I too hope you keep this thread going with your experiences.  They have been invaluable to me, as for the past several years my milk sources have been via farmstead operations with various management techniques and I've finally figured out that I need a milk of a certain "quality" to make consistently good cheese.

I haven't been able to contact the one source that share milks yet produces high butterfat milk...to see what successful management protocols that she's been using, but will report back once I find out.

Bantams, the single common thread that repeatedly appears in your posts is the importance of SCC counts, regardless of other type of tests that result negative.  So in your experience, are the 3 main factors to consider for cheesemaking perhaps butterfat, protein and SCC count?

[Bantams]

I would say I was troubleshooting the cows' issues as much as the cheesemaking process, and SCC tells a lot about milk quality and cow/udder health.
High SCC causes pH to be abnormally high, so when troubleshooting cheese issues it's important to start with the milk before analyzing the make process. 

When mastitis is an issue, it helps to know the SCC of individual quarters because sometimes a culture gives a false negative.  SCC tests are cheap and easy so it's a good way to ensure an all-clear for each quarter.

If I were to assess a new source of milk, the butterfat, protein, SCC, SPC (standard plate count) and coliform counts would all be useful knowledge.

[scasnerkay]

Bantams,
Are any of these tests you can do onsite, or on your own, or are they all lab tests requiring samples be sent off?
It sounds like lab test for SCC. Where do you usually send the milk for that.
The samples from Henrietta went to the vet for testing, and I don't think she did/does SCC count.

Apparently the cow thankfully did not have Staph A. Yay!!

[Bantams]

SCC can be tested cow-side (or at home) with a Portacheck or CMT. I don't have much experience with Portacheck. The CMT is cheaper and more common but the threshold is 250k+. So it's great for showing acute mastitis cases but not necessarily going to detect a subclinical case. However, a SCC of 250k or below theoretically should not be an issue for cheesemaking. But some strains - like Staph A - can interfere with cheesemaking in other ways (enzymes, etc) but are hard to detect with a CMT since the SCC will often be right around 200-300k.
That's why I recommend a lab SCC test for situations where milk quality is questionable but the CMT is inconclusive.

Tests that can be done at home:
SCC (Portacheck or CMT)
Lacto-fermentation test (essentially a qualitative test that subs for standard plate count and coliform). Reflects milk quality after it leaves the cow - equipment cleanliness, chilling speed. I highly recommend this test for anyone using raw milk. (Have you seen how many people using raw milk have issues with coliform contamination?)

Lab tests:
SCC
Components - usually paired with SCC at DHIA labs
SPC/coliform - milk quality lab or food safety lab.
Milk culture or PCR - done to ID mastitis organisms. Sometimes done by a lab that also does SCC.

These can all be sent off by yourself, no vet needed.
If you need help finding a lab, I can help you find one.

[Zapacat]

Thanks, all.

Loving this thread!
Im looking into the PortaSCC as as far as I can find out there is no ability for me to submit to a lab. The milk board has quite the stranglehold on milk in the province.

Bantams if you can find me a lab in British Columbia Id be grateful as Ive checked with the dairy supplier, the raw milk study people one of who works at a local lab that does all the food safety and ag test, and people who have herdshares. No one thinks it is accessible to non-licenced dairies.

My cow's pH this morning was 6.99. Im making Leerdammer from 200 Easy Cheese recipes and holding at 40/104 until it gets to 6.3 as per Caldwell. Going on 2 hours  now plus the 1 hour of stir time and its still at 6.78.   

Thinking about it, the cultures Ive been doing are for raw milk safety. They test for coliforms, fecal coliforms, Ecoli, Campy, Listeria and Salmonella Shigella. Not Staph or Strep. I wonder if I should submit something more tailored to a mastitis test.
I will check her CMT again this evening and if any question I will submit milk from that quarter(s).

So now I have another pH question so ill put it in another reply because I could use your guys' input on it.

[Zapacat]

Here is my problem today:

im making a large-eyed semihard cheese.

According to Caldwell the whey pH at end of cook should be 6.3-6.4. It never got anywhere near that. It was 6.75 at the most. I checked the calibration several times on the Extech and it seems fine. However the curds got squeaky and chicken breast texture so apparently they dropped. Im going ahead and hooping it now but can anyone explain the difference to me?

Thanks,
teresa

[Chetty]

I've been pondering this thread and have thought of a couple of things, what temp are you calibrating your ph meter? Mine wont calibrate correctly if the solution is under 70 degrees farenheit.  What is your calibration procedure?  Do you use new solution, two or three point calibration does the solution in the probe look cloudy or low. 

Other thoughts are how old is this cow? 

Can you post photos of the cow in question and a close up of the ph meter probe. 

I'm a visual person