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Neufchatel

Started by jawnn, December 14, 2023, 03:58:04 AM

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jawnn

This looked like the easiest mold ripening cheese in my book (Making Artisan Cheese) Not much of a book but a place to start, Actually I started with buttermilk cheese more than a year ago. I have been making hard cheese through the summer and now i need to start mold ripened cheese making because My cheese is getting overly moldy, ref-ridge with food and averaging 40f degrees I don't have enough money to through at it and my land lord wants me to not run a cheese cave because he wants not to buy more wire. But its cold enough now to use a small heat pad under my cheese boxes. Is there a book that is better than The Art Of Natural Cheesemaking?? I had to read an inter-library loan. May have missed a lot.

B e n

Mastering artisan cheesemaking by Gianaclis Caldwell is pretty good. It would give you a handful of techniques for dealing with the hard cheese mold problem too.

That book has a couple of mold ripening type recipes, I have had very good luck with them. You will want a ripening box with a temp somewhere around 52-55°f for mold growth then a fridge around 38-40 to mature in.

New England cheesemaking website also has a brie and a cam recipe that look decent.

jawnn

The Mastering making book is the first I started reading. Library has it so I will read more.  I was just looking at recipes for this cheese on internet. Looks like people find the easiest way to adulterate french cheese and most are extremely habituated to salt. I'm just lucky that the medical industry gave the ok for animal fat. The cheese recipe book I have left some recipe's without salt. So I have been making Cotswold with dry onion flakes and no salt.

mikekchar

There used to be someone on reddit who didn't add any salt to his cheeses at all (due to kidney function issues).  He had a lot of success.  I was actually quite surprised.

jawnn

#4
I am about to start the recipe and the timing seems confusing. Is it logical to keep the milk at room temp for 15 to 20 hours with rennet and freeze dried spores mixed in the milk? And one teaspoon rennet seems to be too much????  2 or 3 drops of liquid rennet is better? A Drop is only 1/64 tsp...... And I'm thinking there is point in incubating the milk so long if I use dry mesophilic  culture....?? And if I use one tsp rennet I don't need to incubate the milk, just make curds as usual. True?

jawnn

#5
Also this recipe wants me to drain twice, before and after placing in shape mold. So I am going to eliminate  the extra work. And is it better to sprinkle the dry spores onto the damp curds rather than mixing them into the warm milk?

mikekchar

You must add the culture to the milk.  Nuefchatel is made as much by the culture acidifying the milk and creating the curds as it is by creating curds with rennet (IMHO, more so).

And, yes, draining twice sounds about right.  That's how I tend to do many of my lactics:  Drain it in a cheese cloth to get the majority of the whey out and then transfer it to a mold to let it firm up.  If you drain it immediately in a mold, you will likely *not* be able to flip it.  Commercially, cheeses like Brie are actually made in a hoop (with no top or bottom) sitting on a reed mat.  The hoop has 2 parts (bottom and top).  You put the curds in the hoop and let it drain.  When it gets down below the top part of the hoop, you remove it.  This allows you to flip the cheese more easily.  That's a great technique if you have 100 cheeses to make every day.  However, just draining it in a bag and then packing it in to a mold is totally fine.

Note that cheeses like Camembert are completely different.  It is not a lactic cheese, but rather uses rennet to coagulate the curds.  You drain this completely in the mold (but I'll still tend to drain that for about 6 hours before I attempt to flip it).

Here is a typical recipe: https://cheeseandyogurtmaking.com/blogs/blog-recipes/neufchatel-cheese-recipe

They are missing calcium chloride (but it's less necessary in a lactic since the acid liberates calcium).  They are missing some penicillium candidum and/or geotrichum candidum and the aging instructions are wrong.  But the make is completely sound as far as I can tell.  Well, not sure you need to press it that heavily either... :-)

jawnn

#7
Starting to understand. Need hoop molds or pyramid type. FLow chart: add starter bacteria in milk with spores;  (incubate milk 15 to 20 hours?) then basic curds; drain 8-12 hours in colander; then into pyramid mold to press with light weight about a pound to 2.5lb for 6 to 12 hours; grow fungus in box 7-10 days.. so it should be half incubated by the mesophilic bacteria then let the fungus do the rest? Now it sounds logical. Thanks,  Still sounds better to add spores to moist curds, maybe I will try both after I get the new book.

jawnn

Does neufchatel involve making curd?? I just read a reference that said it does not. Well I am about to burn this book by Tim Smith "making artisan cheese"  it is utterly useless. Or just tear-out I'll that page and give the rest to the library recycling sale.

mikekchar

I think we need to back up a bit again :-)

There are 2 kinds of cultures, broadly speaking:


  • Lactic acid bacteria
  • Rind molds/yeasts

The lactic acid bacteria *must* be added to the milk in basically the first step.  This acidifies the milk over time and is a crucial part of making cheese.

The rind molds and yeasts can either be added to the milk ahead of time, can be added to the curds, or can be mixed with a bit of water and sprayed on to the final cheese.  By far, the easiest is simply to add it to the milk.  The only downside is that you need more of it.  But you need so little of the mold/yeast culture that for an individual a single purchase of it is practically going to last your lifetime.  For a large producer (i.e. making thousands of cheeses a week), you can save some money by spraying it on.  Spraying can also sometimes result is slightly better initial coverage, but in practice it doesn't really make much difference.

The only mold culture I would consider adding to the curds is blue mold (p. roqueforti).  My father does it that way.  Personally, I just add it to the milk.  Adding it to the curds is just an extra step and I haven't seen any benefit to doing it.  I would never do this for p. candidum or geotrichum because you want that growing on the outside.  Just add it to the milk.  I *sometimes* spray that on if I'm making a lot of bloomy rinds.  For example, I have had periods where I will make one literally every week.  In that case, it's convenient to add some to a bit of water (I actually use 1% brine) and spray each cheese.  The spray will last a few weeks.  it means I don't need to measure anything :-)  But really, it's only convenient if you are doing it *very* often.

Flow chart:


  • Warm milk to 32 C
  • Add cultures (both acidifying and rind ones) and calcium chloride to milk
  • Wait 20-30 *minutes*  (NOT hours!)
  • Add rennet (you want 1 drop per liter or 4 drops per gallon, normally)
  • Wait 12-20 hours -- 8 hours is *way* too soon.  16 hours is typical, but it depends on your room temp
  • Cut curds vertically only.  2 inch squares is about right
  • Wait 1 hour
  • Ladle curds either directly into a mold or into cheese cloth.  Basically look at the curds.  Are the firm? If so, directly into the mold.  If not, then into the cheese cloth.
  • Let it drain for 8 hours at room temperature
  • Flip if it's in the mold.  Put it in the mold if it's in the cheese cloth.  Pack it nice and tightly
  • Wait another 8 hours at room temperature
  • Flip
  • Keep waiting and flipping until you think the cheese is firm enough, not sticky to the touch and doesn't "slump" when you take it out of the mold and let it sit for a while.  It might take several days. Or it might not.
  • Weigh the cheese.  Measure out 0.75% of the weight of the cheese of salt.  That is, if the cheese is 400 grams, then you should weigh out 3 grams of salt.  Sprinkle it on the top side of the cheese and the sides.
  • Wait 8 hours at room temperature
  • Flip the cheese and sprinkle the same amount of salt on the other side and sides of the cheese.
  • Wait 8 hours at room temperature
  • Get a plastic box, 3 times the volume of the cheese.  If the cheese is about 400 grams, then you need a box about 1.3 liters.  Or if it's about a pound, then you need a box that is 3 pints in volue.
  • Get a mat (I use a bamboo sushi mat cut to size) that will hold the cheese up off the bottom of the plastic box and put it in the box.  Put the cheese on top.  Close the lid.  Put it in a cool place (ideally at 13 C or 55 F)
  • Every single day, open the box.  Take the mat and cheese out.  Flip the cheese.  Dry out the box so that it is bone dry.  Put the cheese back in the box.
  • When you have full white mold coverage on the outside, then move the box into the normal fridge
  • Keep flipping it and drying out the box every single day
  • Eat when the cheese is soft enough for your preference

QuoteDoes neufchatel involve making curd?

There are 2 kinds of curd.  There are rennet coagulated curds.  There are acid coagulated curds.  They are different.

People often thing that adding acid to milk and adding rennet to milk makes the same kind of curds.  This is incorrect.  They are chemically different and work differently.

Neufchatel is a "lactic cheese".  This means it is primarily coagulated by acid (the acid produced by the acid producing cultures).  A *little bit* of rennet is added because this helps the curd drain more easily.  However, it is primarily an acid coagulated cheese.  Because the acid is being produced over a long period of time (12-20 hours), the curds will be so small that you can't see them.  Because there is a little bit of rennet, some of the milk will be coagulated due to the rennet.  So you will kind of have a mix.

But, to answer the question I think you meant to ask:  No.  You do not make rennet curds, cut them, cook them, drain them and then press the cheese.  That's not how this cheese is made.  This is basically making yogurt (or actually cultured butter milk), draining all the whey out of it and forming it into a cheese.

And while I've never read Tim Smith's book, I can understand your frustration.  Almost all of the information available on cheese making, in books, videos and the internet is crap.  It's misleading most of the time and just plain wrong probably more than 50% of the time.  I can't even guarantee that the information I'm giving you isn't crap!  :o It takes time, effort and experience to make good cheese.  It's not a thing where you can simply follow a recipe and hope for a good result.  You have to understand the process and work out processes that work in your situation.

In terms of the types of molds, I would not jump to hoop molds and especially not pyramid types.  That's actually more difficult.  Just use a cheap basket for these lactic style cheeses.  It's totally fine if it's rectangular.  In fact, there is a new style of lactic cheese called "pave" which is all the rage these days in Italy, apparently.  It's square :-)  I buy baskets from the equivalent of the dollar store.

B e n

The recipe looks great Mike, could you add the hold temps? I would like to give this a go, but I am not sure if you are saying hold the cheese at 32c for 20-30, then let fall to room temp for the remainder?


jawnn

#11
Please back up more and explain which bacteria to use. I have made cheese butter milk and (the infamous recipe says " mesophilic" ) in my cooler box with thermo stat and aquarium heat pad. Well I have two excellent books  on the way, both by same person. 

mikekchar

For temperature rests, just start at 32 C and leave it.  As long as your room temp is over 20 C, you'll be fine.  I don't do anything for lactic cheeses like this.

For culture, any typical mesophilic culture is fine.  If you are using a live butter milk culture, use 15 grams per liter of milk.  Make sure it is live, though (i.e. make sure that adding it to milk and leaving it for 16 hours or so at room temperature results in more buttermilk :-)  If I'm using a DVI culture to start with, I tend to use either Flora Danica or Biena arommatic mesophilic (B I think... I'm not home right now so I can't check).  But honestly, anything mesophilic is fine.