New to cheesemaking, may have messed up ingredients

[Possum-Pie]

UPDATE:
So rather than throw out the crumbly ruined provolone attempt, I pressed it overnight, brined it, and dried it.  Within 24 hours it was bone dry.  I decided to cut it in half, smoke it in the cold smoker, and see what happens.  The flavor was incredible. It tastes nutty like Provolone, but the consistency is more like aged romano. It is very dry, and probably best used for grating, but once smoked and vacuum sealed, it will be useful.   

[mikekchar]

pH meters: It's a good point that the last time I used one was probably 20 years ago.  Probably they have improved a good way since then!

For slowly heating, if I don't have good temperature control on the stove, normally I just move the pot off and on the burner.  Get the burner warm.  Put the pot on.  Heat up 1 degree over about a minute.  Take the pot off.  Wait 4 minutes.  Put the pot on.  It's a workout, but it's an easy way to control the temp.

[broombank]

this is such an interesting thread which I have just read it  from the beginning. It really demonstrates the value of a forum where people are generous with their knowledge and slowly inspire the newcomers to experiment. It took me two years of regular cheesemaking before I dared to go 'off piste' . It reminds me of photography when I learned it as a child from my father. I never used an exposure meter and just learned to sense the correct exposure which is akin to not using a ph meter in cheesemaking. You can often get away with it but adopting a more scientific approach will repay you in the end. There are many parallels with beer and whisky making both of which I have studied in great detail. Great whisky makers get in a 'rut' and get obsessed with minutiae, terrified that even the smallest changes will alter their precious spirit. The most experimental makers are the small new ones who have no pedigree stretching out behind them  and no loyal customers who demand consistency. Even something  as fundamental as the impact of  yeast strains  in distilling is almost completely ignored ,except from the perspective of  being terrified to change anything.  The cheese equivalent is culture variability. I am currently obsessed with trying to replicate the Red Leicester made by Belton farms under the name of Red Fox. This has such an intense sweet favour that makes it intensely moreish. I have been fiddling about with my cultures trying to hit a target I can't see ( Belton Farms keep their culture secrets close to their chest for good reason. ) Using flavour adjuncts in my current approach (eg. Flav 54 which contains S. Helveticus ) Speaking personally I can't stop and I have become obsessed to the extent of taking the exams of the Academy of Cheese during the summer. Level 2 ( membership) involves tasting and rating 75 cheeses which I found challenging but fascinating. Acquiring a detailed comprehensive picture of the entire professional field, definite helps my cheesemaking, just as studying the work of the great photographers helped my photography ( www.broombankpublishing.com) I am surprised how many cheesemakers are apparently ignorant of the great cheeses which a first class cheese shop will have on their counter. I get my inspiration from tasting the work of the cheese masters and trying my best to replicate it.

[Aris]

broombank,

Speaking of cultures, Belton farms might use Barber's MT36 which is used by Stichelton, Montgomery, Kirkham and etc. It is sold in liquid form, less refined and has more strains of bacteria. Imho even if you use their secret starter culture, you will never recreate their Red Fox because indigenous microflora play a role. The microbes in your kitchen is very different from the microbes in their factory. The milk you use is also different from the milk they use even though they are both cow's milk. The cow's diet plays a big role in the flavor of the milk. I make Mozzarella di Bufala and the water buffalo milk I use is totally different from the water buffalo milk in Italy. Mozzarella di Bufala DOP has a subtle floral flavor while my Mozzarella has none of it. There is a famous Swedish cheese called Vasterbottensost and it can only be made in one location in Sweden. They tried to make it in 3 different locations in Sweden and they failed. I noticed that commercial starter cultures like Flora Danica and C101 gives a harsher acidic taste than my natural wild starter cultures. I have a Caciotta style cheese that I inoculated with natural whey starter (originated from clabber or sour milk) and it has a sweet taste with non existent harsh acidity. It is a bit sweeter than a Gouda cheese but the curds were never washed. Clabber and kefir grains are also the same, they don't give a harsh acidic taste.

I actually stopped using Flora Danica because it is such an aggressive acidifier and the acid it gives is too harsh. Gruyere and Parmigiano Reggiano are sweet and savory cheeses that still uses natural whey starter which is wild. I am now back to using a random 10 strain Danish meso and thermo yogurt from China because it gives a sweet taste, better texture (more creamy because it has bacteria that produce exopolysaccharide) and gives more buttery flavor. I like that you mentioned yeast. I am also into distilling and brewing. I love the fact that yeast also play a big role in cheesemaking specifically blue cheese and washed rinds/smear ripened cheese. For example, Stilton gets its distinct aroma from a yeast called Yarrowia Lipolytica. It can boost the aroma of blue cheese. I plan to use baker's yeast and brewer's yeast in my next blue cheeses. I don't feel like spending a lot of money buying KL 71 and DH cheese yeast.

[Possum-Pie]

Being new to cheesemaking, I didn't research cultures but bought a CHEESE CULTURE, THERMOPHILIC TYPE B - FOR ITALIAN STYLE CHEESES from Amazon.  It is made by Biena and I believe it contains Lactobacillus helveticus.  I also am looking for a "buttery" flavor if I try making the Provolone again.
Here in the U.S., the average commercial brand of Provolone cheese is NOT like the European style in shape or flavor but I do enjoy it on sandwiches. One reason I got into this hobby was because of the huge differences in what can be purchased here. I wanted to expand my horizons. I began purchasing small wedges of imported cave cheeses, and trying different styles from different countries.

[broombank]

Thanks Aris for the helpful suggestions re Red Leicester. I'm only too aware that I can't replicated the terroir but at least I can try ! What ever comes out the end will be interesting in its own right even if it's a million miles from Red Fox.
As a former home brewer, yeast fascinates me. I used to use Wye Yeast cultures which were very specific to beer styles. But the amazing thing was how they behaved. Some were 'alive' and could produce waves and turbulence in the wort . One even exploded. Another one would sit like a pizza on top of the beer and then suddenly drop to the bottom when its work was done. My wife stole a handful of distillers yeast when we did a tour of Fettercairn malt whisky distillery ( 15 miles south of Aberdeen) I used it to make beer or rather I would have done if it had behaved . As it was the conditions were totally different and I couldn't get it to work at all. Just heightened my respect for the mysteries of distillation. This morning I spent half an hour queuing for cheese in the Aberdeen cheese shop ( Gourmet cheese of Rosemount) The sheer variety of wonderful cheeses was overwhelming. People stare at it transfixed. Every country in Europe was represented and many unusual British cheeses too. If I needed anything to push me to continue that would be it . Truly inspiring . It sounds Possum - Pie as if you have had some good tasting sessions in Europe. I commend you for trying to replicate them in the US which is quite a task. Good luck !

[mikekchar]

Being new to cheesemaking, I didn't research cultures but bought a CHEESE CULTURE, THERMOPHILIC TYPE B - FOR ITALIAN STYLE CHEESES from Amazon.  It is made by Biena and I believe it contains Lactobacillus helveticus.

Type C is the helveticus.  Type B is the bulgaricus.  I have both and like them both very much.  Type B is very versatile and will be very nice for a provalone, IMHO.  Type C would be for doing more alpine style cheeses.  Last year I did some asiago style cheeses with it and liked it a lot in that application.  I also did some Swiss style alpines with it.

Anyway, if I could only have one it would be the B, but helveticus is necessary for certain cheeses (and not desirable for others).

[Aris]

Possum Pie,

They say Flora Danica gives a buttery flavor but for me it is not good enough. LM57 (Leuconostoc mesenteroides) is an adjunct culture that gives a buttery flavor to cheese. It is also very useful in blue cheese because it also produce gas/co2 inside the cheese which creates holes and cracks for blue mold to grow. You need to combine LM57 with a starter culture such as MM100, Flora Danica or Thermophilic type B because it produce minimal amounts of lactic acid.

broombank,

You should try sourcing MT36 since you are already in the UK. Call Barber's farmhouse and ask for a sample or ask those makers I mentioned if they can give you a small sample. In the brewing world, there are a lot more variety of yeast strains that are in liquid form while dry yeast are very limited. I read that not all strains/species can be freeze dried. It is the same in cheesemaking, there is actually a company that sell liquid cultures for cheese. They sell mold, yeast, bacteria for washed rind/smear ripened cheese and etc. I didn't see starter cultures though. What I find really interesting is they have 13 P. Roqueforti and 9 G. Candidum strains!

[broombank]

that's really interesting Aris - do you know the name of the company selling liquid cultures ?

[Aris]

https://www.lip-sas.fr/index.php/nos-produits/notre-gamme

[Possum-Pie]

Hi, again...I tried my hand at a Gouda. Followed the recipe exactly, washed the curds, and they looked fine, they shrunk to about "cottage cheese" size. Upon pressing, it was lumpy and had fissures running through it. I brined it air-dried it and vacuum-sealed it so we will see how it tastes.  This is the second cheese that I have made that did this...my PepperJack tastes wonderful but cutting it with a knife makes it crumble. 

I was wondering if A. I pressed too hard/too long? I have no spring on my homemade press so I just turn it until I see clear whey.  Or B. maybe it's the calcium chloride? I've heard some people say too much can screw up the cheese consistency.  I put the required amount (1ml for 5 liters milk).  I don't think I brought it to temp too fast, I know from this thread that that can harden the outside of the curd faster than the inside, I was careful with temp this time.

This is my pepperjack...

[Aris]

Common Cheese Defects
Body: in the context of modern sensory analysis, body refers to texture, which is confusing because cheese graders use the term "texture" to refer to cheese openness. Here, we will use the traditional cheese grading terms. Some descriptors for body defects are:

Crumbly/short: often due to excess salt or acid.
Corky: due to overcooking, low fat, low moisture, or excess salt.
Mealy: this defect can be detected on the palate or by massaging the cheese between the thumb and forefinger. It is usually associated with excess acidity.
Pasty: sticks to the palate and fingers; due to excess moisture.
Weak: breaks down too quickly when worked by hand due to excess fat or moisture.

That is from University of Guelph. You can find more info here > https://books.lib.uoguelph.ca/cheesemakingtechnologyebook/chapter/5-4-defects-and-grading/
I suggest you make a Caciotta, use mesophilic culture, skip the stufatura, use your preferred chilis and aim for a pH of 5.3-5.4. The resulting cheese will be very close to a Pepper Jack.
https://cheesemaking.com/products/caciotta-recipe

[mikekchar]

> I suggest you make a Caciotta, use mesophilic culture, skip the stufatura, use your preferred chilis and aim for a pH of 5.3-5.4.

Aris, you and I need to give a name to this overall style of cheese :-)  It's weird to me that there isn't one already.

[Possum-Pie]

The recipe did contain salt, but I didn't put in more than called for and the cheese doesn't taste too salty, maybe it was an acid thing. That cheese was made before I began testing acidity.  As I said, tastes great, and melts well. Pain to try to put on a cracker though...

[Aris]

> I suggest you make a Caciotta, use mesophilic culture, skip the stufatura, use your preferred chilis and aim for a pH of 5.3-5.4.

Aris, you and I need to give a name to this overall style of cheese :-)  It's weird to me that there isn't one already.

You should do the honors of giving it a name. "Caciotta" is like my template when making different kinds of semi soft and hard melting cheese. It is highly customizable. I can make it semi soft or hard by adjusting rennet set time, curd size, cook time and cook temperature. If I want it to be "Gouda" like, I wash the curds and it doesn't need to be pressed. It can be aged vacuum packed, oiled, natural rind/mixed rind or washed rind. I've even made one that was very similar to a mature cheddar in flavor, taste and texture without doing any cheddaring. I think it was likely related to pH (5.1-5.2), age (almost 15 months) and moisture content.

Possum Pie,
What about the taste? Is it sour/tangy? I think its pH must be 4.8-5.0 and it can still melt at that pH range.