New to cheesemaking, may have messed up ingredients

Started by Possum-Pie, September 14, 2023, 04:09:00 PM

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Aris

Quote from: Possum-Pie on January 10, 2024, 02:26:47 PM
Aris, beautiful pepperjack.  You didn't press it? I expect that is why there were a few small mechanical holes.  The texture looks much more like what I expected from mine.

Another question: When I made my Romano, I saved the whey and made ricotta from it. I got maybe 1.5 cups and was very pleased. When I made the pepper jack and the gouda, I got nothing.  A few small dry curds.  I know many people don't bother with it, but I'd like to get ricotta from the whey if possible.  What would cause such a drastic difference in amount?
Thanks. Yeah, it didn't get pressed. It had minimal holes and I also used Flora Danica which can create some small holes because it produce CO2. Its texture was creamy and pliable, very close to the real deal. It also melted really well. Regarding your Ricotta, pH must not be in the right range. Do you use vinegar or acid? When I am using water buffalo milk whey, the whey needs to have a pH of below 5.9 for ricotta to float. Nowadays I prefer the pH of the whey to drop to 5.2-5.4 which results in a Ricotta that is slightly sweet, slightly tangy and savory. Goat's milk whey is far more forgiving when making ricotta, it floats even when the whey pH is over 6.0. Cow's milk whey needs to be below 6 pH in order for the ricotta to float. Whenever I fail making traditional ricotta (no acid is added and made from sweet whey), I add vinegar incrementally until the ricotta floats.

Imho a screw press is not a good cheese press. If I do press a cheese, I use 2 buckets and the top bucket is filled with water to act as weights. If I need more weight, I add weight plates on top.

mikekchar

You don't need (or even want, IMHO) a spring.  Just screw down the press until you see a little bit of whey seeping.  Keep your eye on it and adjust the tension to keep a little bit of whey seeping.  The first 15 minutes you'll probably have to adjust if 1-2 times (if you even put any weight on it at all).  The next 15 minutes, you might have to adjust it once.  The next 30 minutes probably not at all.  The next 30 minutes you definitely won't.

People press their cheeses waaaaay too hard generally.  If you have to put 30 lbs of pressure on a 1-3 lb cheese, *you have done it wrong* (assuming it's not a cheddar, in which case there are scenarios where you're probably OK).  Even commercial parmesan producers put less than 25 kg on a 25 kg cheese.  You don't need much weight if you are hitting your drain pH correctly and not over pressing at the beginning.

Furthermore every single recipe that includes pressing weights is suspect, IMHO.  Your pressing weight and my pressing weight will be dramatically different just due to circumstance.  Especially if they give a pressing weight, but *not* a drain pH, it's like saying, "Here's a random cheese.  Let's press with random weight!"  Virtually every single video you see on the internet shows people massively over pressing their cheeses (often by 10x the amount of weight they should be putting on the cheese).  Sometimes it works out OK.  Frequently it does not.

The goal of pressing a cheese is to close the gaps in the cheese.  That is all.  100%.  Finished.  Nothing else to do!  As long as you don't over press the cheese it will completely drain itself of whey on its own.  People think they have to press to get whey out of the cheese.  That's just absolutely and completely wrong.  Totally!

Was that emphatic enough? :-)

You need to keep the cheese structure open for the first 2 hours of draining so that the whey can get out.  If you press it too hard, you will close the cheese and whey can not escape.  However, you want to close it as soon as possible after that because the cheese knits the most easily the higher the pH.  You want to *very* slowly close the gaps in the cheese over the first 2 hours with the goal of completely closing it exactly at 2 hours.  It's better to err on the side of too slow rather than too fast.

One thing to keep in mind.  Above a pH of 6.0, virtually all cheeses will close without any weight.  By the time you get down to a pH of 5.3 you're starting to need multiples of the weight of the cheese, if the cheese is dry.  If you are finding that you need a lot of weight it's essentially because you got into the mold too late.  The pH is too low.  You make have additionally over cooked or over stirred the cheese, leading to case hardening or just very dry curds.  Pretty much it all boils down to making fairly large mistakes in the make.  It's too acidic, you raised the temperature too high too fast, you fractured the curd and it dried out, you cooked too long, you stirred too aggressively.

Oddly, the amount of culture you added to your milk (and how you handled the make) is crucial because the more active culture you have, the faster the cheese will acidify.  The faster it acidifies, the more difficult it will be to close the cheese.  Measuring and tracking how the cheese is acidifying, getting the cheese into the mold at the correct pH, and maintaining the correct room temperature while pressing are crucial to pressing your cheese.  Small variations in these parameters will have massive effects on the amount of weight you need.

This is one of the reasons I only use mother cultures when  make cheese.  Directly adding DVI cultures to small cheeses is an invitation to having absolutely no idea how quickly the curd is acidifying.  I always do a flocculation test so that I can see how quickly the curd is forming.  The faster it forms, the faster the milk is acidifying.  I use that timing to inform me how much time I have to get the cheese into the mold.  Then I cut, cook and stir the curds with the goal of hitting that target.  You can also use a pH meter to track your progress, but it's not necessary once you get the hang of it.

I always recommend making a simple cheese like a caciotta several times to get to the point where you can make a good solid cheese with barely any (or even not having any) pressing.  Once you have your skill at that level, you can make other cheeses much more easily.

Possum-Pie

Thanks Mikechar, I found a post of yours that includes a detailed recipe for caciotta on the forum. That will be my next cheese. 

Possum-Pie

Update on "ruined" provolone.  6 weeks in the cheese cave and there were several small blue mold dots. It is not surprising since it is a low-acidity cheese. I decided to try some. As I mentioned previously, it was very hard. Cutting it was like cutting Romano. It cut cleanly and did not crumble though, and had no mechanical holes. The flavor was incredible—Buttery Provolone with a hint of nut.  Overall, except for the overpressing, I'm happy. My wife likes it by the slice, but I much prefer it grated.


B e n


Possum-Pie

Quote from: B e n on January 28, 2024, 03:28:24 PM
Awesome, congrats!

Thanks...my new journey into cheesemaking has not produced a cheese that I didn't like, but the texture/consistency of the wheels still needs a lot of work. I'm beginning to believe that the real art is to get the perfect texture. Flavor seems to be a bit more forgiving.

Aris

Possum-Pie
Nice to know it came out good. For me, flavor, taste and texture are tied together, even appearance. If I get the texture wrong (crumbly), its taste will be too sour and it will have a harsh lactic flavor. I recently opened an over 14 months old (I ignored it because I have a lot of cheese aging) Pepper Jack style cheese and its texture is great which means the flavor and taste are also great. It has some flakiness because of its age. Its flavor is similar to vintage cheddar but spicy and has a nice chili flavor and its taste is sweet and savory. It also has minimal acidity which I prefer. I am not really fond of tangy/tart tasting cheese.


mikekchar


Possum-Pie


Possum-Pie

UPDATE on the Romano...
Well, this is the first cheese that I will have to throw away. After almost 8 months in the vacuum pack, I opened it the other day and it was horrible smelling. STRONG stomach acid/bile smell (prob. Butyric acid). I like smelly cheeses, even the stinky Parm/Romano smell, but this was awful.  After sitting on the counter for an hour, the smell had lessened slightly and I took a small piece. I couldn't finish it, it was very bitter, like bile, with no redeeming properties. I even smoked a wedge in my cold smoker to see if I could mask the flavor, but it is just too far gone. The problem is I didn't write down which recipe I used, so I can't recreate the mistake I made. I posted this elsewere in the forum and someone said maybe lipase, which I MAY have used, I forget...I really want to make a Romano that tastes good, but to have to wait half-a-year to see if you succeed is frustrating.

Aris

I feel your pain. I actually have a Parmesan where I used lipase and it has a butyric flavor that I despise. I vacuum packed it again and left it to continue aging. It will be 2 years old on June 12 and I might try it again in the near future. If it is still not good, I will feed it to my dogs.