Cheddar Cultures

[wharris]

Believe it or not. I have yet to use my new cultures.
I have spent so much time/effort/money getting ready for the 2010 Wine Season,  my cheese making has really fallen off. 
My cheesemaking space in my basement has a new oak barrel and a temporary AC unit and its now just a mess. 
Plus, I really am kinda waiting on a 10kg Kadova mould.  Tired of the mould i currently use.

Is there a consensus yet on this cheese culture?  was it worth it? or is it too soon to tell? 


I will get to mine,  but it might be a few more weeks.

[Sailor Con Queso]

I have used it quite a bit but have not tasted any cheeses yet. The pH curve is REALLY different with this culture so you have to adjust timing. The acidification is really flat early on and then starts to kick in about 2 hours into the make.

[FRANCOIS]

Try pre-priming some milk.  Take about 1% of your total milk volume and add culture to it the day before the make.  Then when you are ready to make cheese measure the pH (should be below 4.5).  Use this as your starter culture.  Your pH should drop like a rock.

[FarmerJd]

I haven't made cheese since Feb. (dried up 2 of 3 cows for summer) and won't be back into regular weekly batches until sept-oct. I plan on trying what Francois said and making a batch of milk ahead of time to use. I will post again when I use it.

[BigCheese]

Plus, I really am kinda waiting on a 10kg Kadova mould.  Tired of the mould i currently use.

I am sure I have read it somewhere here but I cant recall what mold you use now. Is it Kadova? when you get your 10kg are you looking to sell your present mold?

[Sailor Con Queso]

Try pre-priming some milk.  Take about 1% of your total milk volume and add culture to it the day before the make. Use this as your starter culture.  Your pH should drop like a rock.

I like this primer approach better than doing a larger mother culture because this creates a fresh uncontaminated culture every time.

I'm gearing up to start doing regular 30 gallon batches so I'm looking for economies of scale. 30 gallons = 3840 ounces x 1% = 38.4 ounces of pre-primed milk needed. A little over a quart. So on a daily schedule I would use skim milk (so it won't be as thick), bring to a near boil, cool to 90F, add a very small amount of dry starter, incubate at room temp for 24 hours or whenever the pH gets to 4.5-5.0. Use immediately or refrigerate.

...and I assume that rennet can be added immediately after adding a primer culture since the bacteria don't have to "wake up". That would really save a LOT of time in a small production environment. Just have to think 24 hours ahead.

Room temp is fine for Mesos, but what about thermo cultures?

[FRANCOIS]

You still need to wait for a pH drop, so you can't add the rennet immediately.  We buy thermo mother culture, so I'm no help there.   

[Sailor Con Queso]

So just add the primed milk and wait for a .1 drop in pH before renneting. How long would you anticipate ripening this way? I know that may be a little hard to answer. I'm looking at how much time savings there might be. For example, I make lots of Stiltons (did 2 last night). I normally use Aromatic B culture and rippen for a full hour before rennet. So, could I anticipate ripening for 20 minutes () if using primed milk culture? I'm sure the activated culture will also drop faster in pH later in the process as well for other time savings. For example, I shoot for a pH of 5.5 before salting and hooping a cheddar. I would think that the curds should hit this pH marker much sooner than with a powdered culture. Yes?

I usually use about 1/4 tsp P. roqueforti for a 5 gallon Stilton. Could I add a little bit, say 1/16 tsp, of P. roqueforti to my primed milk mix instead to make the dry culture go further? Is that done with commercial blue mother cultures? I'm wondering the same thing for P. shermani for thermo culture.

Why do you buy thermo mother culture? Is that a frozen culture? Couldn't a thermo primed milk be ripened at 110F like in a yogurt maker?

[FRANCOIS]

I would say 20 minutes is a good guess.  The thing about priming is that it will give you consistent times from day to day as well.  We don't mix a primed mould mix.  I don't see the point of doing it, it's not producing a pH drop or anything, so I don't see how it provides any savings except maybe a few minutes for rehydration.  The amount of blue you add is based on the total volume of milk as recommended by the manufacturer.  It's not like it would reproduce in the prime or anything.

We purchase our thermo internally from another part of the company (we own a culture house of sorts), so it's no help to you.  It comes frozen.  You could make up a little lab heater connected to a styrofoam water bath to give you conditions for making thermo mother culture.  I'm not sure how to explain it, possibly Linuxboy will know what I mean and be able to steer you more, as I have seen it in quite a few dairy labs. 

[linuxboy]

I know what you're talking about, Francois, will try to post a more detailed answer later that covers bulk/primer practices.

[Sailor Con Queso]

I make yogurt in a dehydrator that uses 110F forced air. I'm thinking I could mix up quart glass jars of thermo primer and just rippen at the same temp in the dehydrator. That sounds too simple. What am I missing?

Can P. shermani be added in small quantities to a thermo primer mix to "stretch" a dry culture? How about in a meso mix for Baby Swiss?

Your suggestion was to let the meso primer mix sit at room temp for 24 hours or until the pH dropped below 5.0. I use heating mats to start seedings that are 80-85F. So what if I do quarts of meso primer and incubate on the seedling mats? My yogurt is always done in 12 hours, so I'm thinking a primer mix would be ready in 12-14. Not sure how to do the math or plot a pH curve on that one. I'll try it and see how fast the pH drops into range. Good old fashioned trial and error data collection.

[FRANCOIS]

You really want your starter lower than 5, 4.5 would be a minimum.  It's exponential, the pH curve.  24 hours should give you about 4.0, which is ideal.  The only way to know though is to give it a try.  Shermani is in the same boat as blue mould. I don't see much use in it, as it's not a pH driven growth.

You could, however, easily culture your blue mould using an earlimier flask, bread and a refrigerator.  I don't see much harm in stretching your dry culture that way.  If you were to try and keep it for extended periods though, it will mutate quickly.

[FarmerJd]

Sailor, I culture my stuff in quart jars by putting them in a super insulated (lots of blankets) ice chest filled to just below the lid line with warm water. The water temp depends on meso or thermo. Just floating an idea.

[Sailor Con Queso]

So you're doing thermo as well? How long are you incubating at the higher temps? Are you testing pH or just hopeing for the best? From a production standpoint, I would like to start a batch around 5pm and have it ready to go the next morning around 9am. That would be 16 hours of incubation.

[FarmerJd]

I have done cultured thermo for cheese a few times but my wife makes yogurt in 2 gallons batches and I just copied this method from her. I do the same thing with meso cultures now. I left the thermo in overnight (at least 8-10 hours) but I can't say the temp stayed that high that long. I did not ph test but after this discussion I will from now on; I am always "hoping for the best" . Story of my life.