Emmenthal cheese help needed

[Erkki Juusto]

I just recently joined the CheeseForum.  I have been making cheese for four years.  We milk two cows (Brown Swiss and Brown Swiss-Jersey cross) and get a lot of milk.  This year I have started making bigger wheels of cheese.  I start with 15 gallons of raw milk and I have followed Debra Amrein-Boyes recipes.  I just scale everything up to the quantity of milk I am using.  I get 10-15 lbs of cheese from 15 gallons of milk.  I have purchased my cultures from New England cheese making and I have till now used vegetable rennet.  We built a cheese cave using CoolBot system and simple humidifier.  We keep the temperature at 52 F at 70% humidity.  I have made several large wheels of Emmenthal and have not been successful with the those beautiful Swiss holes.  Can someone give me hints how to make it happen?

[linuxboy]

Press under whey, use the right surface to volume ratio (about the max height you could do is 7-8"), get the right plasticity in the rind (through drain pH), use the right PF ratio in the milk (IIRC ~1.15), and keep in the warm room at the right temp and humidity. Right temp depends on your propionic strain, but usually around 65F.

But mostly, it's the pressing under whey that makes a difference.

We've covered this before, maybe look through some old threads?  Might have more insight than my quick post here.

[Erkki Juusto]

Dear Linuxboy,

Thanks for your reply.  This all sounds very informative.  If you don't mind, I need some help understanding what you mean. 

Pressing under whey.  How do I do that?  Do I use a press where the whey is trapped in the press?  Do I pour 7-8"inches of whey on top and press on top of that.  Currently I use a large bucket with holes in the bottom, and a slightly smaller bucket for press.   The press bucket holds 5 gallons of water which would weigh about 41 lbs.  What type of press do you recommend?
What do you mean by drain pH?
How would you determine PF (protein-fat ratio) in a milk?  Are there inexpensive kits/equipment to do that?
Where do most people ripen their cheese around 65 F?  We live in high desert of Montana where relative humidity is quite low.  I tried to get the right humidity and temp in a cooler box, but I noticed that I didn't have enough fresh air in the box and the cheese didn't taste very good.

I looked briefly at the old threads.  Can your refer me to any particular thread that would be helpful?  Do you recommend any books to read?

Again, I really appreciate your input.  Once I understand all the new things you mentioned, I will try again.

Erkki Juusto

[linuxboy]

I looked briefly at the old threads.  Can your refer me to any particular thread that would be helpful?  Do you recommend any books to read?

https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1044.0.html
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=593.0;attach=1413
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=593.0;attach=2940
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2200.0.html

Few books cover this. This forum is more comprehensive than they are in just the four posts above.

Do I use a press where the whey is trapped in the press?  Do I pour 7-8"inches of whey on top and press on top of that.

You take the matted curds and not drain whey all the way out and press the cheese while the cheese is under the whey. Or take all the curds out put in mold, pour whey in pot, put mold in pot and press. Any way you want, so long as cheese is submerged.

What do you mean by drain pH?

pH at whey drain.

How would you determine PF (protein-fat ratio) in a milk?  Are there inexpensive kits/equipment to do that?

You find out the protein levels and the fat levels and calculate. Or guesstimate based on the milk you buy or if you're on milk test with your own animals, guess from that. Define inexpensive. Fat is a babcok (forum filters correct spelling) test, protein is Kjedahl, or you could use an expensive milk tester unit.

Where do most people ripen their cheese around 65 F?

At home? In a ripening box or container put in a room at room temp. You need to open it once a day and let it air out if you do that.

[Erkki Juusto]

Linuxboy,

Thanks for your response.  I went through all the documents you sent.  I think I have a plan now.  I will also keep a close eye on the pH and use whey during pressing.  I looked into Kjehldal and Babcock tests as well.  I will ask around if I could get access to a service that would do these measurements for me.

[linuxboy]

Well the pressing it just does its thing. it's the acid development at the time the curds knit that matters. If pH is too low (too high acid), you won't get that plastic pliable wheel. It should be like rubber when it knits -- lots of calcium.

[Erkki Juusto]

Linuxboy,

I think I have made some progress with your great suggestions.  I sent milk specimens from our two dairy cows to a diagnostic lab and found that I have done the protein/fat ratio right.  It turns out that our browns swiss cow produces milk for swiss cheeses, coincidence?  I also bought some pH strips to check the pH during pressing.  I pressed the curds under warm whey with 20 lbs for 1 hr and noticed how the pH was dropping nicely.  Then I turn the curds and pressed them overnight 50 lbs. I have now done three rounds from 15 gallons for raw brown swiss milk and each time I ended up with 11 lb round.  First one I brined with 9% salt in water.  Then I read more the threads on this site and did two rounds in 18% whey brine.  The last two looked better than the first one.  The final pH after pressing  under whey was ~ 5 in all of the three rounds.  I put them all into +52 F with 70-80% humidity.  I have a coolroom that operates with a CoolBot system.  It works real nice.  I was planning to keep them there for 3 weeks and then bring them to 65-70 F for 3 weeks and look for swelling.  I will put out some picture if they turn out.  Do you think I am on the right track?

Erkki

[linuxboy]

Linuxboy,  I pressed the curds under warm whey with 20 lbs for 1 hr and noticed how the pH was dropping nicely.  Then I turn the curds and pressed them overnight 50 lbs.

Your press schedule is off. Your prepress under whey should be ~3-4 PSI for 30 mins, and then the press should be 7-10 PSI for 4-6 hours. Overnight is way too long, the acidity develops too much. You should brine when cheese pH is 5.4

18% whey brine.  The last two looked better than the first one.  The final pH after pressing  under whey was ~ 5 in all of the three rounds.  I put them all into +52 F with 70-80% humidity.  I have a coolroom that operates with a CoolBot system.  It works real nice.  I was planning to keep them there for 3 weeks and then bring them to 65-70 F for 3 weeks and look for swelling.  I will put out some picture if they turn out.  Do you think I am on the right track?

Yes, right track, but your press was a little too long and the acidity built up too much before brining. 18% brine is about minimum.

How long did you brine for?

[Erkki Juusto]

LInuxboy,

Thanks for quick reply.  Do you have an "eye-ball" conversion for PSI to gallons of water?  For a typical round of curd, how many pounds?
I brined 3-4 hrs per pound which ended up being 48 hrs.  I turned the round in brine once after 24 hrs.

Erkki

[linuxboy]

What is your wheel size? I used PSI so you could figure out the weight based on the surface area.

Also, wheel size is important for brining because uptake rate differs based on surface to volume ratio.

48 hours is quite long for an 11 pounder swiss. Swiss final salt level is barely 1%, usually .8-.9

[Erkki Juusto]

How long would you recommend brining?  The wheel is 10" in diameter and 3" high.  What type of weight do you recommend?

Erkki

[linuxboy]

I would do half of that time, maybe 24-30 hours. 48-72 hrs is more like a comte, or maybe a beaufort, for a ~1.5% salt content. But if this was the right PF, with low fat, it might still be okay. Propionic is really sensitive to salt, so be careful.

For the PSI, you don't need very much if you do prepress under whey at 2-5 PSI. Perhaps 8-10 PSI for the final press.

You should calculate the "pounds" equivalent for PSI based on your wheel size. a 10" diameter wheel has 78.5 square inches. Meaning 1 PSI is 78.5 pounds of weight.

[Erkki Juusto]

Linuxboy,
I brined the wheel for 32 hrs.  I also read some of the threads on presses that can do 10PSI.  What type do you have? What do you recommend?
Erkki

[linuxboy]

Use either a dutch press or pneumatic cylinder - good control over various PSIs that way.

[Erkki Juusto]

Do you have any drawings o plans for a Dutch press? I need to fit it in our kitchen in a space of 4'x 8'.  I probably need to build it out of metal to handle 500 lbs of weight for 10PSI.