Ken's Camembert

[Ken]

I have made Camembert a few times now and the only time it didn't work was when I forgot to sanatize the cave, I just couldn't get the black mould to stop growing, the inside ripened very nicely but I didn't let anyone eat it. After that attempt I haven't gone wrong with it.
Anyway here is a few pictures of the Camembert process I did today. I will post more as I get I get them.

[iratherfly]

Looks really nice! Are these ricotta baskets? They may drain a bit too quickly.

The black mold does sound weird. The stuff you inoculate into the milk is suppose to grow faster than any other mold and kill it. If you have spots of foreign mold, blot them out with white vinegar and salt. The white should re-grow over the spot. If it's really deep, cut it off with a knife. It will heal and re-rind.

I would not sanitize the cave; on the contrary. Cheese caves are an excellent place for the micro-organism to keel living. Keeping them alive actually helps your cheese age better and faster with the WANTED bacterium rather than with pathogenic bacterium. Every time you sanitize it you have to start building the bacterium from scratch all over and you are losing out on cheese quality and rind character.

As for not serving it; I think when cheese has weird mold and the rest of it looks and smell fine, just cut off the weird part and the rest safe. Contamination of cheese usually ends up only destroying the cheese, not people... Cheese is generally safe and stable. There will be tell-tell signs for cheese that's unsafe to eat. Usually bad smell of Ammonia or Alkali, or stench of sour milk. Doesn't sound like this was the case. Take photos and share next time. Maybe someone here can telly you what the mold is.

[Ken]

Thanks for the reply iratherfly. The cheese in question was my first attempt at cheese ever (back in late April, I think) and the cave I bought off ebay (used). After I had finished with that cheese I sanatized it only the once, I have never done it again. I should have sanatized it when it arrived but didn't think of it until after. I haven't had the black mould back and all my cheeses since then have been really good. will keep your thoughts in mind if it happens again. Hope it doesn't though.
Actually,when I was making this batch of camembert I originally forgot to put in the PC. (I usually put a pinch of mould in the brine as well). I put a pinch into the curds and whey after cutting although I don't think this will be the same, but I tried it anyway (as Wayne puts it, this has become a sort of experiment. We will see in about in a few days.

[iratherfly]

What recipe are you using? Camembert is best (and traditionally-) salted and not brined.  If you ever forget to put PC, do not dispair... adding it to the coagulated curd is not a good idea because you have no control over its effectiveness and there is no process that draws it into the curd. Adding it to brine (I assume you use 18% salt?) is useless because 18% will kill most of it.  Best practice? - Spray it on when the cheese is 2 days old. Do it once every 2 days or so until you see a nice bloom. Mission accomplished.  Most commercial brie is made this way because it's actually much more economical. The curd doesn't really need the PC. It's only there to develop a rind that will ripen the cheese from the outside towards the inside anyway. Spray it outside and you are good

[Ken]

Iratherfly, I was wondering, should I mix the mould spores with cool boiled water or is tap water ok. BTW I only brine them for between 30 - 60 minutes and yes about 18% brine. Thanks for the info.

[iratherfly]

You may actually be under-brining them (check per their weight).

As for the spraying solution:  I use filtered water, I boil them in a kettle so I can mix them with kosher salt and it will dissolve well and fast. (it also kills everything in the water).  I actually put the bottle on the scale, fill it with 200g water then 6g salt (3%). I wait for it to cool down to room temp. I then add a pinch (1/16th to 1/8 tsp) of geo and a pinch of PC. I let it sit for 5 minutes to reconstitute, then mix (or close the bottle and shake it). I then let it stand for 12 hours in room temp to start working. Before I spray I kind of gently rock the bottle up/down in my hand to mix it without shaking it. I spray it like you would spray the leaves of a plant. Until it is wet but not dripping. Close the box, put it in the fridge. Re-pray it again in 2 days. No need to wait another 12 hours on the following spraying but it is more effective if you take the bottle out of the fridge an hour ahead of time so that it's closer to room temp when you spray it.

[Ken]

thank you for that iratherfly. The cam's that I do are only about 100-150g. But I will try the spray and post pics as they develop. Thumbs up.

[Alex]

thank you for that iratherfly. The cam's that I do are only about 100-150g. But I will try the spray and post pics as they develop. Thumbs up.

Ken, it looks that your baskets are 250 cc, a real Cam should be made (at home) in a 500 cc basket of the same type.
I have very good results, considering a basic batch of 3 l of raw milk, inoculating it with a pinch of PC diluted in a little boiled water. Then, after cutting and healing, pour off the whey to the curds' level. Add and stir gently not less then 80 gr of table salt until dissolved, about 2 minutes. Now, transfer the curds to the baskets. Curds made from 3 l of milk, will fill 2x500 cc baskets or 4x250 cc.

[Ken]

I usually have great results using these smaller moulds. I use them because they suit our needs, the larger ones are just too big for us and a lot of the wheel would be thrown away. I am making this size wheel simply because of that fact, it suits us and our needs...I certainly do not sell them and never intend to. 

[mtncheesemaker]

Hi Ken;
I think the size also affects the ripening rate to a point. There is a certain ratio of rind to paste, and the ripening occurs from the rind to the interior. So, I think those traditional sizes were developed because of that, and a "camembert" is ripened in a particular way.
This is not to say that the sizes you are making are not quite good cheeses; they will just be a bit different than a "camembert". (Which none of us can really duplicate exactly as we don't live where they were developed, but to come close, the size matters.)
By the way, I always put my P. candidum and Geo in the milk; had problems using the spray. Everyone seems to develop a method that works.
Pam

[iratherfly]

I tend to join Pam with this one.  The enzymes go to work breaking down fat lipids and proteins to produce the rich consistency of this cheese, and that takes about 3 weeks. If you use the same bacteria on a smaller cheese, the surface ripening will happen way too quickly and the outer paste will begin ammoniating before the enzymes were done working their magic to give you that creamy goodness you want.  It may look, smell and feel like a proper ripe Camembert but the heart of the cheese will still be young, sour, chalky and flaky.

I have been working on a technique for a new micro Camembert-like cheese for quite some time now. (35g, one-bite, it also has other bacteria to make a more intense aroma and flavor -because the cheese is smaller).  It was very challenging to get what I want out of these little bastards (maybe I should name this cheese "Little bastard"?)

Alex, I assume you meant pre-boiling the water, then cooling them down before adding PC... Do you do it to distribute it better? Most commercial PC is "DS" (Direct-set) - can be thrown into the vat as powder. I just wonder.  As for your salting method; I've never tried it though it should work.  You told me about it when I had issues with my early Camemberts; I remember.  You do 80g salt in how much whey? 'Curd level' can vary depending on how wide is your pot and how tall your molds are.  Can you pinpoint salt quantity for whatever whey is produced by 3L of milk instead? (or in % of salt in whey by weight?).  That way I can just salt the whey and use however much I need to cover my molds. For me, salting medium-heavy on all sides works best so far. I like that it starts a rind formation immediately. 

Traditionally the french dry-salt this cheese. They also use hoop-and-net arrangement instead of baskets. They use ladling instead of cutting the curd (though some cutting is allowed only if the cheesemaker feels it's needed for a current given batch).  Camembert is almost as generic and liberal as Tomme. However the high standard to look to is still the originator and mother of all Camembets - the Camembert de Normandie which is an official AOC cheese.  I would model the home Camembert as close as I can to it to get the best results. Here are the official standards in their current version:

Decree of December 26th, 1986 (Article 2) relative to the Label of Origin " Camembert de Normandie " :

May be called "Camembert de Normandie" a lightly salted soft cheese ranging in colour from white to cream yellow, with superficial mould (white with some occasional red spots), undivisible curds sometimes slightly vertically cut, and spontaneous straining. It is a flat cylinder ranging in diameter from 10,5 to 11cm, made exclusively of cow milk containing rennet. Its fat content after complete desiccation must be at least 45 grs per 100 grs of cheese. The minimal weight for a cheese is 250 grs, and the total weight of dry matter must not be less than 115grs per piece.

Moreover, the milk production, the manufacturing, the drying and the maturing of the cheeses sold under this AOC-label must fit the following conditions:
a) The milk used for the cheese production must comply with the legal requirements: the livestock must be free of tuberculosis and brucellosis and the milk may not contain added condensed or dried milk, milk proteins or coloring substances.
Ultrafiltration methods are forbidden and milk may not be warmed to a temperature exceeding 37°C.
b) Coagulation of the milk is obtained exclusively with rennet.
c) The curds are ladle moulded and the ladle diameter must be the same as mould diameter. The process must be discontinuous with a minimal of 4 fillings per mould.
d) The salting must be done exclusively with dry salt.
e) After being salted, cheeses are stored for drying at a temperature ranging from 10 to 14°C, before being packed in wooden boxes (they may however be stored in cellars (8 to 9°C) before packaging). The maturing period after the manufacturing date is at least 21 days, from which 16 in the geographical area where they are produced.
f) Division is allowed only for ready to consume cheeses.

[Ken]

ok ok I concide defeat. Next batch of Camembert will be the right size and weight. Is everybody happy now. Oh and be the way sometimes my cheese are soft and gooey and other times they are firm (but never chalky), either way they taste very good.

ps. do you think I should change the name of my camembert to Kenembert. lol

Ken

[Mondequay]

Kenembert can be any size you choose. 

[Ken]

Thanks mondequay.

[Alex]

iratherfly,

Alex, I assume you meant pre-boiling the water, then cooling them down before adding PC... Do you do it to distribute it better? Most commercial PC is "DS" (Direct-set) - can be thrown into the vat as powder. I just wonder.  As for your salting method; I've never tried it though it should work.  You told me about it when I had issues with my early Camemberts; I remember.  You do 80g salt in how much whey? 'Curd level' can vary depending on how wide is your pot and how tall your molds are.  Can you pinpoint salt quantity for whatever whey is produced by 3L of milk instead? (or in % of salt in whey by weight?).  That way I can just salt the whey and use however much I need to cover my molds. For me, salting medium-heavy on all sides works best so far. I like that it starts a rind formation immediately.

The answer to your PC question is - YES.
'Curd level' - Discard about 1/3 of the whey.