Epoisse culture and drying?

[iratherfly]

So this isn't Epoisses but rather other variations on semi-lactic cow's cheese.  I was able to get them firm even without pre-draining (I made the curd as if it was a st. Marcelin). I then did a test variations. The most notable were the plum-wine washed. It took me 2 weeks to get the one I wash with the plum wine to show B.Linens. It still needs another week of washing in my opinion.  I think I figured the airing and rubbing strength on the wash and next time I don't have to do 3 weeks but can do it in a week. It also had GC but you really have to watch it with these semi lactic cow's and GC. It can really take over and gives you this gooey rind.  I will report back when I test them later this week.

The other variation was shockingly good. I have revived an old French affinage technique where instead of washing you are putting the cheese (aperitif size, 2Oz/60g mini wheels) on top of a liquor or wine bath and let it age in the fumes. It took some trial and error but what I got was absolutely gorgeous and phenomenal complex flavor and aroma. I used Calvados (apple brandy). There was zero rind for about 12 days and strong apple smell but at the end it smelled like a yeasty very fine cheese and the apple comes out only at the end of the bite. It's not like "wow, apple!" but more of a sweet fruity note that really works with the cheese.

[arkc]

Yoav,

It's beautiful.

This is copied from PD's manual. 

Saint-Marcellin is a lactic cow milk cheese that is made in the same way as the goat cheeses. Originally it was a goat cheese and is a thin disc shape weighing approx. 3 oz. Because a smaller amount of rennet (4 ml per 100 lb. milk) is used than in Chaource, some of the cream rises to the top during the acidification period. After acidification to pH 4.5 the cream is ladled off the top of the curd and is used as sour cream or churned into cultured butter.

Did you have to ladle cream off the top?

annie

[arkc]

Almost forgot a question I wanted to ask y'all...I don't think that I have read anywhere that Semi-lactics
shrink a lot while draining...But I just noticed that they are considerably smaller (height and diameter)
than the renneted types. 

I said that last week I had made the larger of the Epoisses sizes.  Well it appears that it has shrunk
to the size of all the others, which actually looks like a cheese made in a Marcellin mold.

Comments please.

annie

[Helen]

Iratherfly - Those are gorgeous. You mention "trials and errors", would you mind sharing with us what you learned? When I get back from France, I will try your technique. I have the same moulds as you do but never got the chance to try them out.

Annie - I think my yield is actually smaller with semi-lactic cheese but not significantly so. I am afraid that is not much help to you.

[arkc]

Helen, thanks for answering.

I measured all of my cheeses that were from the same mold.  I have three of each type from the
same molds. The Rennet types are 4.5 inches (all of them) and the Semi-lactics are 3.75 (all of them). 

They were all made within a month's time and the milk was all Jersey from the same dairy.

Anyone else know?

annie

[arkc]

This is one that should be ready in a week or so.

It is 3.75 inches in diameter...

annie

[Oude Kaas]

That looks very promising.

[arkc]

Thanks Oude.  I will post a photo when it's opened....If it's not too awful.

But did you see my question/comment about the size of Semi-lactics and renneted types.  Do you
find that the SLs  'shrink'?

annie

[iratherfly]

Helen Sure! Where in France are you or will you be? So much fun! I love going to France. Do you visit frequently?  My trial and error with this particular cheese was over the use of Calvados and building rind - how and in what timing.  This cheese is very delicate and the curd is rather soft so dunking too early will wipe away the salt. Moreover, Calvados is SO alcoholic that I was afraid it would overwhelm the bacteria of tiny cheese.  The best practice I found so far is to drain, salt and dry it first.  It creates an initial protective rind. I then prepare the Calvados "bath" (1/4" layer of that on the bottom of a box and a grille to hold the cheese on top of it, but not a draining mat; draining mat is too dense and wouldn't let the fumes escape upwards and soak up in the cheese). I dunk the cheese once on each side for no more than 2-3 seconds per side, situate them on the grille and let them age, turning them daily. (I have re-dunked at the end of the 2 weeks in fresh Calvados and they gave me a golden brown, nicer rind).
I close the lid almost all the way but I leave enough room for air to exchange. By day 10 these will smell like apple cider and appear to have zero rind (except light random geo/pc spotting). At day 12-15 I open the lid more to let them air and the Calvados dry out. Now the rind begins to build up and they smell more like cheese than apples. You want it to have apple notes at the end, you don't want this to taste or smell like apples.

Annie thanks! Yes, there was an cream on top but I didn't want to ladle it and it was kind of pointless; there wasn't *that* much.  It's a lot  like making Chaource indeed however the acidification is much longer (20-24 hours vs. 12-18 hrs). I did get a rather proper St. Marcelin out of it (used half the curd for a classic St. Marcelin) but the purpose was really to try other cheese development, not to make St. Marcelin.
As for your other question - yes, Semi Lactics do shrink considerably. The curd has is so watery and much of its volume is water so as it dries, the volume becomes much smaller and the cheese becomes firmer and less gentle. After losing 2/3-3/4 of the volume in draining, ladling and drying, expect to lose another 1/8-1/4 of what you put in the cave during affinage (depends how much pre-draining you did and how much rennet if any you've used). The St. Marcelin is a good example. Fresh it would not fit in the little Terracotta dish but at 2 weeks old no problem getting it in there.

By the way, your cheese is beautiful!

Here are my "proper" St. Marcelins:

[arkc]

Yoav,

Those look yummie! 

And thank you for answering my question about 'THE INCREDIBLE SHRINKING SLs' I was beginning to think I was balmy! 

One more question and I'll stop picking on you, why are mine so very orange? I do use the brightest of the B.Lins, but I've certainly never seen the 'real McCoy' that bright.  They are usually more on the brown side.  Do you know what strain of Corynebacterium they use for real Epoisses?

annie

[iratherfly]

Thanks!
I have seen the real Mc'Coy being quite orangy at times, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I am not sure what B.Linen strain they use (if any) but you also have to remember that regardless of your choice of strain, cheese develops its own corynebacteria naturally, especially if you wash it.  In other words, if you would wash it with nothing but plain slightly salted water, it would still develop some orange rind. The mixture between its natural bacteria and your wash makes this bright orange. Washing with Marc intensifies that even further because it has yeast that de-acidify the surface and help it grow even stronger.

The second thing to remember is that once the corynebacteria is alive and kickin', it continues to intensify well beyond your washes.  In other words, stop washing it a couple of orange shades before the rind has reached your desired color - it will still get stronger on it's own for a while after you are done. ...So if you haven't done so yet, it is now time to stop the washes and let the Geo finish up naturally with some white dusting and rind balancing until the cheese is aged to consume.

[arkc]

Have already stopped bathing them.  I've never had one get this colorful before.  So I had a
hard time stopping!!!

They should be ready soon.  Don't know what they will taste like,  but the aroma is great
already.

Thanks again Yoav,

annie

[arkc]

OK, now what?  This little darling and it's siblings are supposed to be ready this week and next week.  I pulled one out and pressed on it, it's about as soft as a hockey puck.

Comments?

annie

[Oude Kaas]

What are you waiting for, try it!!!

[arkc]

It's hard like rock!!!!

I don't think it should be HARD, should it?

annie