What is the highest Butterfat used for Camembert

[arkc]

My Subject line pretty much says it.  I want to know what is the highest percentage of butterfat
in a milk that I can use to make a traditional Camembert?  I use Jersey raw.  Do I have to skim
it?

annie

[Tomer1]

I think peter dixon notes 3.3-3.4 as butter fat standart.
So you will have to skim some of it if you want traditional,
I would just leave it and make creamier cheese.

[arkc]

I would like to do just that, but I was told that it would be too solid....

annie

[linuxboy]

A traditional camembert has a milk PF of .86-.9 to achieve a FDM of 50%. Your Jersey milk usually comes in at about 5.0% on fat and somewhere around 3.8% on protein, for a PF of .76. That is higher than normal fat, and it depends on the cheese make if it makes it up to 60% to be considered a double creme. I doubt it would make it to 60% FDM.

Yes, jersey milk camembert tends to be on the more solid side because of the fat. But not necessarily a bad thing. If you want to be exactly at 50% FDM, you do have to skim a tad (.5% or so). Depends on your milk, too. If fat is coming in at 5.5 and protein at 3.5, obviously it's different.

[arkc]

Can you give me the formula for calculating a double cream cheese?  In one of
Peter Dixon's manuals, it says :

•For Jersey milk the yield is one Camembert from 3.8 lb. milk and 1 Brie from 15-16 lb. milk. These cheeses are closer to a double-creme due to the 4.5-5% fat milk.

Thanks, 

annie

[arkc]

LB,

Let me clarify.  Wouldn't the percentage of fat in a cheese depend for one thing on how much
whey was retained in the cheese.  If you heated the  milk to 92 degrees, then after normal renneting,
cut the curd to hazelnut size and let rest 10 minutes, could you calculate how much whey you should loose?  Or what the remaining fat % was?

annie

[linuxboy]

Can you give me the formula for calculating a double cream cheese?

Not sure what you're asking. Are you trying to figure out how to calculate FDM, MNFS, % fat, % protein, PF, or what?

To get the amount of cream necessary to add to milk to achieve a specific PF, that's not just one formula, and to calculate anticipated final FDM is not just one formula because you have to hypothesize on yield

And yes, Peter is right, but I just said the same thing, that with Jersey milk, you will be over 50% FDM, so it will be higher fat than normal, and likely not quite a double cream.

Wouldn't the percentage of fat in a cheese depend for one thing on how much
whey was retained in the cheese.

Well, yes, in a sense, that it depends on moisture. But that's why we measure FDM (fat in dry matter) and not simply % fat. The measurement for FDM subtracts moisture.

If you heated the  milk to 92 degrees, then after normal renneting,
cut the curd to hazelnut size and let rest 10 minutes, could you calculate how much whey you should loose?

Yes, I could come up with a model to calculate theoretical loss. But I don't follow how this relates to FDM because FDM takes final moisture % into account.

Or what the remaining fat % was?

You mean fat in whey? Yes, I could come up with a theoretical yield calculation for fat lost in whey. Most of the time, you just make an assumption and use that when calculating how much cream to add to milk and what PF to use for specific cheese styles.

[arkc]

Basically, I was trying to figure how to make a cheese that would get 'oozy' like a cam and not solid like a double/triple cream.

I was thinking of just skimming a 'tad' of the cream off.

What do you think?

annie

[linuxboy]

Oh, I got it. Didn't realize. yes, skim about 1/4 cup of pure 100% fat to bring it back to a .86-.9 PF in the milk. Meaning if your cream has gathered, like the thick stuff on top, that's usually about 40% fat. So remove 1/2-3/4 cup of the really thick cream and you will get more ooze.

This is assuming the milk has normal, Jersey 5.0% fat. if it's super milk and the fat get closer to 6%, you need to remove more. It's about 1/4 cup of pure fat you need to remove for each 1% drop in total fat content in the milk. And your milk should have a fat content of about 4.1% to make a traditional cam with Jersey milk.

[arkc]

Sooooper!

That's exactly what I wanted to know. 

Thanks again,

annie

[janesmilk]

Hi, sorry to hijack!

Just wondering if someone can do the math for me, since I need some brushing up!!!!

Im adding 32 cups ( 2 gal) of cream to 30 gallons of 4.5% milk for making brie. Is this a double creme?  My best guess is that Im taking my whole milk fat percentage up to almost 9%. Am I a total math loser?

Thanks for your help

[Gustav]

I made some cams a couple of weeks ago using full cream jersey milk. I added to 18 Litres of milk, 2 litres of extra cream. The cheese are starting to soften from the rind inwards & there are some areas where the cheese already is like a toffee/caramel texture! Nice!!