Emmenthal & Comte recipes.

[gasblender]

Trying to find the recipes of these cheeses. Unsuccessfully. Maybe someone will tell? Please

[MrsKK]

I don't know much about Emmenthal, but my understanding on Comte is that this cheese is made in huge wheels - 50 lbs or bigger.  It was talked about not too long ago.  Use the search function at the top of the page to find the threads.

[gasblender]

Thank you, Karen. If the search in the forum was effective, I would not ask the question))))

[cheezwhizz]

This is a recipe ive cobbled together from various sites and has worked really well for me.. I think the make is pretty straight forward and easy. But the rind control can get a little tricky. Keep in mind the cheese will turn into a beach ball when the gas production starts. so the rind needs to be soft and  pliable while still firm enough to keep from breaking.


    Ementaller

   2 gal. 2% milk (+) 2 gal. whole 3.5% milk = 4 gal. total

   3/8 tsp TA61

   3/8 tsp LH100

   1/8 tsp  Propionii  S

   1.5 tsp CACL

   1/2 tsp Veal Rennet

    Warm milk to 90 degrees..add CACL, Starters, Propreonii...let ripen for 60 mins

    Add rennet and multipy floc. x  2.5....cut curds to 1/4 inch and let heal for 10-15 mins... start to gently stir while raising temp to 100F in 40 mins...Then Slowly raise temp of curds to 122F in another 40 mins....cook at 122F for aprox 30 mins more....curds should be "pea - rice size". (cook until semi-dry and semi-firm but still able to knit easily)...drain in cloth and load into mold in one piece or large chunks. Press under warm whey (120 degrees) for 20 mins. @ 15 lbs..Flip and re-press warm @25 lbs for 20 mins....Flip and dry press at 25 lbs. for 1 hour....then press at 50-60 lbs for 8 hours.@ room temp.  (7.5 inch mold)

   Remove from press and brine in "medium" brine for 6 hours. (saturated brine is to strong and will kill proprioni..).Use 1/4 cup salt to 4 cups of whey.. When wheel comes out of the brine, rub with a heavy coat of sea salt. then immediately fan dry and remove excess salt. Repeat this on the second day using a small amount of water and salt.The idea here is to build a high concentration of salt "ON" the rind. This will  deter mold, especialy durring eye formation when the temp and humidity are high.

   Move to cave  at 50 - 55   for aprox 10 days to build a rind. Then move to 70-75 degrees for sweating and eye development  ( 2-3 weeks)

   After eye development, return to cave...At 30 days vac. seal....At  60 days this cheese has very very  good flavor... When you taste it at 120 days  "it'll make you YODEL"   

   Some good info here   http://www.foodscience.uoguelph.ca/cheese/sectionf.htm

     
   

[gasblender]

2 cheezwhizz
Thank you for detailed recipe!
I'll try to do it this weekend.

[Boofer]

Thanks for the recipe, cheezwhizz. I reformatted it a little to put it into a more bulleted recipe format in MS Word.

I think that may be the reason my previous cheeses using proprioni did not really swell as I expected. I used a saturated brine and inhibited or killed it. I will retry some of those previous efforts and this recipe with the reduced-salt brine and the follow-on dry salting. That seems like a lightbulb moment for me.

-Boofer-

[Sailor Con Queso]

Bof - Propionioc is very salt sensitive. I have mentioned previously that I use the saturated brine that many recipes call for, but I cut the time in half.

[ArnaudForestier]

Bof - Propionioc is very salt sensitive. I have mentioned previously that I use the saturated brine that many recipes call for, but I cut the time in half.

Sailor, I am curious on the differences in rind v. paste salt content, as I am just now going over some of the texts in this area.  I also wonder about these considerations when thinking on desired prop. metabolic effects (eyes, for example), v. flavor compounds from prop. (partial) inhibition or retardation, lysis and enzymes. 

So - I guess what I'm asking is, it makes a difference between doing an emmental, and a gruyere, when thinking of brining times, concentrations using prop. as an adjunct species, yes?  I ask, because I'm doing a 3% wash, as with all my cheeses, and experimenting with 2 different beauforts using this concentration (both are from your recipe, using prop.).

[Sailor Con Queso]

I know there's a question in there someplace.

It is extremely important to keep the rind flexible on an Emmental or Baby Swiss or the rinds will just crack instead of expanding. That is not as much of a consideration with a Gruyere or Beaufort because they are not allowed the warm phase that produces the heavy CO2.

So, does salt on the rind effect the Propionic in the body of the cheese? (I think that's your question). Since Swiss types are aged in cave temperatures for 3 or 4 weeks prior to the warm phase, there is ample opportunity for osmosis to allow the salt to migrate well beyond the rind. High concentration salt is going to move towards a lower concentration area pretty quickly. Although it probably hasn't reached equilibrium and balance throughout the cheese, too much rind salt could definitely effect the Propionic.

[ArnaudForestier]

Sailor,

I guess what I'm asking is, it makes a difference between doing an emmental, and a gruyere, when thinking of brining times, concentrations using prop. as an adjunct species, yes?

In other words, my question is whether there's a difference in considering brining, salting, etc., when doing an emmental, v. a beaufort or gruyere?  I did note somewhere that true Swiss varieties are typically salted lower; and I just wondered whether these cautions also applied to gruyere, beaufort, comte (but suspected it was different, for some of the reasons you've gone into).  I think I have the answer.    ( )

Thanks.

[cheezwhizz]

  GasB and Boof......Hope you guys give this recipe a try. Ive made 7 batches and have never been disappointed. The flavor of the cheese has been excellent. And the eye formation abundant. All my cheeses swelled till they looked like beach balls..... Before you try this recipe I would suggest you read Sailors post, titled "My Baby's Swelling" I adopted his rind control techniques for a Baby Swiss. And used them on the Ementaller.  (Thanks Sailor  )
 
  Good Luck........Hugh

[Sailor Con Queso]

Cheezwhizz - Traditional Alpine cheeses including Emmental are very large wheels that are dry salted and not brined. So where did you come up with the idea to rub with sea salt and fan dry after brining?

[ArnaudForestier]

Sailor, I'm sorry to raise the question, but I've actually seen a video of alpine makes, with them dunking in brine, then pulling and salting the wheel (just watched, actually, from a Rick Steves "Switzerland" DVD) (clip, here.  Starts at 1:09 - "2 day bath in brine, then after a salty rub...". 

I also just read this from Paul Kindsted's book:

For large, rinded cheeses, it is difficult to incorporate the required amount of salt into the body of the cheese through dry-salting alone before the rind impedes further uptake of salt.  Large, rinded wheels therefore are usually brine-salted first to incorporate adequate salt into the body of the cheese, and then dry-salted to create the hard rind.

I'm curious on all this, as the physics and biochem of salting are probably foremost in my mind these days.  I would think there are ways, for example, to dry-salt alone, and still ensure you don't too prematurely "seal" the rind to further NaCl penetration.  I also do recognize that seemingly many alpine makers, more than I knew of previously, both wet brine and dry salt their makes.

[Sailor Con Queso]

I was speaking of "traditional" Alpines. Most herdsman/cheesemakers just didn't have the resources to brine large wheels of cheese, so it was easier to dry salt. OF COURSE nowadays most production cheese is brined.

[ArnaudForestier]

I was speaking of "traditional" Alpines. Most herdsman/cheesemakers just didn't have the resources to brine large wheels of cheese, so it was easier to dry salt. OF COURSE nowadays most production cheese is brined.

Sailor, you're saying the small mountain cooperative shown in the video isn't making their cheese in a traditional way?  And that Kindstedt's take is basically incorrect?

I've just been digging, and am finding many things that I wouldn't have thought going in.  For instance, from the "Culinary Heritage of Switzerland" website, Gruyère:

Une fois démoulées, les meules sont immédiatement salées, soit à sec, soit par immersion dans une saumure à plus de 20° Beaumé et une température comprise entre 12 et 20°C. Elles sont ensuite entreposées au frais (12 à 18°C), sur des tablars en épicéa dans des caves ayant un fort taux d'humidité relative (environ 92%).

Durant les huit à douze premiers jours, les meules sont frottées à l'eau salée et retournées quotidiennement afin de favoriser la formation de morge.

(For the non-French readers, it basically says that once the cheese is unmoulded, the wheels are salted - either by dry-salting, or by brining, then placed in a cave on spruce, at 92%RH.  The wheels are washed daily with a brine for the first 8-12 days, to encourage the formation of morge).