Cheese Flavor Charts "Bite my tongue!"

[Boofer]

It occurred to me the other day, as I cut & sampled what I intended to be a Jarlsberg made last Spring-Summer, that a particular taste...mouthfeel, that I got from tasting the cheese, was Propionic shermanii bacteria and/or acid. I initially characterized the cheese as being acidic, but not in the same way as one would expect from being over-ripened.

It's difficult to accurately describe the taste impression I get. It has a slight bit of a bite to the tongue. Butyric acid? Propionic acid?

The Jarlsberg candidate is no Jarlsberg. There was no eye development even though the cheese was kept out at room temperature (~70F) for weeks after a week stay in the cool cave. The paste has more the consistency of "Laughing Cow" process cheese. It melts very well. It is stark white in color.

There is the possibility that because I experimented and added a tiny bit of sodium nitrate to the milk, I may have inhibited the Propionic growth. I subsequently revised my process and made two Goutaler cheeses that should turn out to be more in line with the style. They didn't get the sodium nitrate dosing. That has been shoved to the back of the shelf.

I have attached two flavor guides that just leave me more confused.

So, I'm wondering what I could be tasting. Any experts in cheese tasting out there?

-Boofer-

[linuxboy]

It has a slight bit of a bite to the tongue.

Which part of the tongue? And is the bite more tannic, peppery, acidic, or something else?

[Boofer]

I tasted the cheese again today. The character is very lightly acidic...more slightly bitter, I think, but not altogether unpleasant. Actually, whatever style of cheese I've created, it is pretty nice. But still, that mysterious flavor. I wish I had more of an accomplished palate so that I could describe it more finely.

The area of the tongue seems to be centered, just in from the tip. Not tannic/astringent, not hot/acidic like pepper. Don't know.

Curious how the cheese turned out, being soft like a cross between soft cream cheese and Laughing Cow...spreadable. I wonder what happened. I made two wheels just about the same...two separate makes. White, soft, pliable, no eyes, moister paste than any alpine ever wanted to be. A disappointment for the cheese style, but an okay cheese still worthy of eating.

-Boofer-

[DeejayDebi]

Gee that's odd ... looks like a very young cheese.

[smilingcalico]

I was tasting a friends odd batch the other day and I couldn't quite put my finger on what the taste was.  My friend suggested "soapy" and the memory of having an Ivory soap bar put in my mouth for dirty language ("If you're going to use such dirty words, we'll just have to wash them out!).  Would that description fit your cheese too? 

[Boofer]

I was tasting a friends odd batch the other day and I couldn't quite put my finger on what the taste was.  My friend suggested "soapy" and the memory of having an Ivory soap bar put in my mouth for dirty language ("If you're going to use such dirty words, we'll just have to wash them out!).  Would that description fit your cheese too?

No, not soapy. It's a very elusive flavor. As I said, the two charts don't help me pinpoint it. As I also said, not  unsavory.

Debi, they're just around 9 months old. They do seem like young cheese.

I'm going to try to cook with them. They do melt very nicely. Perhaps incorporated in with other flavors they will mingle and meld as well as melt.

-Boofer-

[MrsKK]

"A disappointment for the cheese style, but an okay cheese still worthy of eating."

That's what I've been impressing on my students in the workshops - while you may not always get the intended results, rarely do you end up with such a mess that it can only be tossed to the chickens.

Too bad we can't taste things through the 'net or maybe someone could help pinpoint the flavor you are getting.  Can you explain why you added sodium nitrate to your cheese?  I've never heard of that and am curious.

[Boofer]

"A disappointment for the cheese style, but an okay cheese still worthy of eating."

That's what I've been impressing on my students in the workshops - while you may not always get the intended results, rarely do you end up with such a mess that it can only be tossed to the chickens.

Too bad we can't taste things through the 'net or maybe someone could help pinpoint the flavor you are getting.  Can you explain why you added sodium nitrate to your cheese?  I've never heard of that and am curious.

There was a method to my madness:

The first suggestion to me.

I attached Debi's recipe which is what I used as a starting point. Thanks, Debi.

My use of sodium nitrate.

From page 28 of the attached document:
"cheese to which nitrate was added obtained a better score for general quality and eye
formation than cheese made without nitrate addition. The aroma and taste of the cheese
were superior, with intermediate levels of nitrate addition and whey dilution. The conclusion
was therefore that both too much and too little nitrate had a negative effect on the cheese
quality."

I had used 1/8 tsp sodium nitrate dissolved in distilled water and added at the same time as the CACL2 just before adding the rennet. This was in four gallons of milk. This was repeated in two separate makes and the cheese turned out the same for both cheese wheels. Both used 1/4 tsp Meso Aromatic B and 1/4 tsp Propionic shermanii.

I derived the ideal cooking range for Jarlsberg(Goutaler) cheese from the attached document: 86F(30C) - 98.6F(37C). Unfortunately, these two cheeses in question were cooked at or around 98, following Debi's recipe. Possibly too hot for mesophilic culture. Two subsequent makes were cooked at 89F without the addition of sodium nitrate. They appear to be closer examples of the style, if I can go be rind appearance alone at this point in their affinage.

For my money, the jury is still out.

-Boofer-

[MrsKK]

I just think it is great how many different experiments people are willing to try with their cheese and the benefits to all the rest of us when you post your results.  Thanks for the explanation.  I don't foresee making Jarlsberg anytime in the near future, but will have to file your notes away at the back of my mind in case I do venture in that direction.