Blue Me Away

[Boofer]

You might be right, Aris. I did sample the puck earlier...it was quite bit smaller...and it seemed fine.

This is my first true blue effort. I have learned quite a bit with this cheese, including ladling vs. cutting, piercing, rind development, and affinage. I'll see what I have created after a couple weeks.

I am hopeful my next foray into the blues will be an image closer to a Stilton. Ride, Captain, Ride...oh great Cheesemeister!

I am hoping for my next make to be in a Bûcheron mould. That would make for a larger, more interesting cheese.

-Boofer-

[iratherfly]

What did you learn? Would love to hear.  I am not doing many blues but I am experimenting now with blue for the first time in like a year. I am trying something totally new and against common sense: A highly acidic curd, but lots of yeasts to bring it back rapidly to neutral rapidlly and give it some fluff and internal gas to help the blue develop. It's a ridiculous experiment that is surprisingly working so far. Preotolysis is a bit too fast and I am afraid it may cause bitterness but I am watching it closely. Reducing humidity doesn't work because it kills the blue but I think that refrigerating it for a couple of days will halt the geo and without affecting the blue so it will catch up again. (By the way, I didn't put geo in it; it just catches it from other cheese and shelves in the cave)

[Boofer]

What did you learn? Would love to hear.

I've learned that ugly can sometimes be beautiful. But I'm not so enamored with the crinkly, wrinkly multicolored rind that this cheese presented to me. Found out I'm not that big a fan/connoisseur of the rind (sorry, Sailor  ). I think for my next blue cheese I will minimize the gothic rind with vinegar and salt.

Piercing seemed to be an issue with this cheese. I pierced several times, but the holes always seemed to close up. That needs to receive some closer attention. It needs to be done early to give the blue inside an early chance, but then follow-up piercings need to reopen the ventilation holes to keep the blue thriving. This cheese was cut rather than ladled. I would like to try ladling next to see what the difference might be. I would expect more curd volume and wetter curd.

My intent was to create a cheese in the Stilton fashion, but in the end I created just a blue cheese. That will be my focus from now on...just to develop a respectable blue/bleu cheese.

Lastly, we had discussed my purchase of two Bûcheron moulds. Do you have them available? If so, may we proceed? I don't recall if you mentioned the dimensions of the Bûcheron. Can you tell me what they are?

Sounds like your renewed foray into blues may be breaking new ground in blue development. Good luck with that.

-Boofer-

[iratherfly]

Ah, yes. Unlike you I am a fan of the rind. The dirtier, stinkier, more rustic it is - the better is the cheese. It's just the nature of it and it's good for the cheese too.

Good note about piercing, thanks for that. It's been a while and I forgot the frequencies. Will do another thicker needle tonight. With the dense semi-lactic curd you really need to pierce thickly.

Bûcheron: There is no one size for them, every farmer makes them different.  My moulds are still available (getting more of them this week. You will get them!) They can contain about 1kg (2.2Lbs) of curd. They call them 350g moulds but don't be mistaken. These are typically used to produce Bûcheron which is 350g after aging.  The cheese I showed you in it started with 975g. (6 hours pre-drained semi lactic) and it still didn't fill the entire mould. Now, after a week it weights 680g so the final cheese will probably be about 600g. Of course depending on cheese type and aging you can produce a larger cheese. The size I believe is 16cm x 9cm (approx 6 1/3"H x 3 1/2" Ø)

[Sailor Con Queso]

I'm with you IRF, the rind is the best part. If you "minimize" the rind, you will minimize the flavor.

So Boofer, here's a little treat for you to try:

Boone Creek Blue Stuffed Figs.

Scrape a little concentrated blue from the rind
Stuff the figs
Wrap with a little prociutto and pin with a toothpick
Pop in the oven for just long enough to warm things up

Enjoy. Your friends will love you for serving this incredible appetizer.

I also have restaurants that are doing blue stuffed olives with the rind.

[Aris]

Papillion Roquefort has big flavor for having no rind and the surface is stronger tasting but not unappetizing. Gorgonozolas i've tasted with almost no rind to thin rind also have big flavor and the surface has a nice pear like flavor. Rogue River creamery produces rindless award winning chesses, they wouldn't win awards if their cheeses have minimized flavor. Real Stilton rind on the other hand tends to have TOO much blue mold flavor plus ammonia which is very unappetizing. Bleu D Auvergne and Fourme' D Ambert tends to have ammoniated rinds w/ b linens. You must have rind fetish mr. Ed to love funky thick rinds.

[Boofer]

You must have rind fetish mr. Ed to love funky thick rinds.

That tickles my funnybone!   Mr. Ed with a rind fetish.   

-Boofer-

[iratherfly]

Aris - the whole concept of Blue is to build internal flora within crevices inside the pâté of the cheese. In other words, it is exactly rind that you build over and over again -inside the cheese.  Generally speaking, the flora is what lends any cheese much of its aromatic properties. The rind also has a significant effect on the rate of lipolysis and proteolysis in the cheese which are responsible for flavor and texture development. In many cases they also use as a protective bacterial boundary that inhibit growth and protrusion of competing bacteria and prevents moisture from leaving the cheese. Many blues develop a geo rind that you cannot see (it just gets more of a creamy or brownish shade closer to the edge).

I cannot imagine most cheese without rind (Tomme de Savoie, Camembert, Beaufort, Tallegio, Reblochon, Crottin...). The plasticy character-less supermarket brand cheddar that ages in vacuum bags is the perfect example for what happens when you make rindless cheese. Can't even remotely compare it to clothbound or cave aged cheddar types. There are very few cheeses like Gouda, Edam, Feta, Queso Blanco or Haloumi, that really don't need rind and boast that clean non aromatic flavor and uniformed texture throughout the slice (Unless a very long-aged Gouda). Otherwise the rind is king and the art of cheesemaking is very much about the ability to grow a gorgeous garden of fungi from your local terroir on your bed of fermented milk...  There is a great amount of exaggerated phobias surrounding rinds and moulds, but that is a modern day cognition that is the result of big-corporate promotion of germophobia in order to sell cleaning and packaging products or promote food that is made lazily on an industrial scale with long shelf life and perfectly lousy yet very consistent appearance and taste.

This is more about fear mongering than cheese mongering.  People fail to realize that from bread to vinegar to wine, beer and cheese, to cured meats and pickles -about 70% of our diet is based on fermented foods where floras, molds, yeasts, fungi and bacterium have been promoted intentionally to create the flavor, texture, aroma and to protect the food from competing pathogenic enemies. These are GOOD for you and should cognitively signal to your brain that more mold means better cheese; big flavor, high quality, care, patience; a great deal of artisanship and skill with the wholesomeness of small dairy where animals are well treated and have good life. To modern day Americans it symbolizes the polar opposite. If the rind has mold or the texture is uneven -stay away. It's not made industrially and therefore not safe. Who knows what the farmer put on it and what grow on my cheese? How safe is dairy that comes from small farmers with a few animals that eat wild plants instead of precisely manufactured diet?  Can I eat the cheese if it has rind? Throw it away/cut it off. Bacteria bacteria bacteria! 

Sailor - what a great simple recipe!  In the Mediterranean it's common to combine goats' cheese with figs (which are very abundant) and maybe some roasted nuts -in salads, sandwiches, baked goods etc. Blue cheese would make a terrific combination.  One thing that I do with blues (which works especially well with Gorgonzola) is combining it with artichoke hearts and lock it in a turnover of puff pastry. I do an egg wash on it (1tbsp water + 1 beaten egg, just smear it thinly on the dough with a brush or paper towel - keep the moisture inside and gives it a flaky shiny crust). If I have some sesame or poppy seeds around I sprinkles those on the egg-washed puff pastry too but not a must.  I bake at about 350°F-375°F (depends on size) until golden brown (15 min? Aagin, depends on size and how many you have on the baking sheet).  The results? A Gorgonzola and Artichoke Bourekas.  Flaky and hot outside, gooey and yummy inside (though they are still great eaten at room temp).  Would work very well with Roquefort or Valdeón too.

[Aris]

Take it easy, i know the purpose of the "Rind" no need to lecture me or rant about it. I make surface ripened cheeses myself so i already know what you are talking about. We are talking about blues here, not surface ripened cheeses. I was just saying that there are blues that taste awesome without a rind or with a thin rind. I was also explaining the flavor of the rind of those cheeses. I never said rind is plain bad and should be prevented from forming. In fact im fond of eating funky rinds even with ammonia flavor but i hate heavily ammoniated rinds. From my experience of eating and making blue, having a thick rind of blue is detrimental in the long run because of ammonia seeping into the cheese. All rinded blues that i have eaten tends to have ammonia flavor in the pate especially Stilton. But rindless blues, like Roquefort and Danish Blue, never had a hint of ammonia flavor. Gorgonzola, very little. Thick blue rind from my observation, over ripens the cheese and gives ammonia flavor.

[Boofer]

Great rind discussion!  I see and appreciate both your sides, Aris & Yoav, and I know others can benefit from your different viewpoints.

For my part, I have little experience with making or eating bleu cheese. I'm a bleubie newbie. I didn't know a lot about the taste so I bought a one pound piece of Royal Blue Stilton a couple months ago. That seemed pretty good to my palate so a month or so later, I bought some more and accompanied it with a bit of Fourme d'Ambert, which I am leisurely enjoying now.

It is a little past the magical 90-day mark specified by Sailor and others here, so today I sliced open the second tall boy. I observed that the dry rind had become moistened, more malleable, and more attractive. It was very similar to what the commercial blues looked like when I opened their vacuum bags. The piercings still failed to achieve a fully populated interior. Something else I need to polish in the way of cheesemaking skills.

The paste was creamy and bluey. I'm still developing my blue palate I think. Something just doesn't jibe with my tastebuds. 

I like the rinds on my Tommes and Beauforts, not so much on the Reblochons, and definitely not on the Taleggio or Esrom.    I'd have to classify those last two as rind failures, but the paste was tasty. I am definitely looking forward to tasting my Tilsit at the end of this month. It's rind looks and smells pretty good.

That's a good point you make about moldy cheese, Yoav. Americans have been, for whatever reason, educated to understand that mold on cheese is an undesirable thing. I'm afraid I fall into that category as well, but I'm clawing my way up out of that pit of ignorance. I have left cheese out at room temperature for over a month! Something I would not have ever thought about doing, but it was required for my Goutaler to develop eyes. Don't curse the darkness, light a candle. Cheesemaking and this forum lights a lot of candles. 

Thanks for that recipe, Sailor. Yeah, I had seen you post it a while back. I might give it a try.

-Boofer-

[JeffHamm]

Looks good.  Very moist looking inside.  Should be nice and tasty.

- Jeff

[Aris]

If you really want good veining, try making a stir curd blue cheese. If your familiar at making cheddar, you know the consistency of the curd before you stop cooking it. That is the right curd consistency to get good openings in the cheese. Then ladle the curds to the mold, you let it drain overnight. Salt the next day. This approach is alot less time consuming compared to Stilton style approach. Stilton is tricky because of the high moisture content, curds become mushy when salted if its too wet. I think its better for the curds to be slightly dry than wet thats why you should press the consolidated curds before milling if your not doing it already. This will ensure good openings in the paste.

[linuxboy]

Aris, that approach should work OK, but is not how I have seen most makers do it. The standard is to cook the curds hot, increasing temp faster than a cheddar, to create a slight shell on each curd piece and dehydrate the outer shell after some whey has come out. That way, when the curds fuse, they will retain their individual shapes and help with openness. This is one of the key nuanced steps in most standard, surface-salted blues.

[T-Bird]

The last 3 "stiltons"  that I have made were 2# and I pressed the finished curds between 2 flat boards with an 8# wt while in the draining bag for 24hrs flipping once, then milled to almond size and salted and placed in the mold. Flipped 2x daily for 5 days then into the " cave" - veining has been really good-much better than any of these pictures.The difference is the curds were firmer and will knit, but leave voids. T-Bird

[Boofer]

Aris - Sorry, never made a cheddar yet, but I know what you're talking about with the texture of the curds. Seems like that's what I recall seeing in that Stilton video. The curds they were salting were definitely more cooked and curd-like rather than the wet type I dealt with here and I've seen others dealing with.

I can appreciate that the drier curds would create the needed voids for better veining, but that seems to bring up a question when filling the blue cheese molds. There seem to be three ways to fill the mold:

• cut the curds and spoon them in (the way these were done)
• ladle the curds in (per Stilton requirement?)
• cook the curds so that their shell is somewhat harder, then spoon them in

Salting is done when?

If the curds are cooked so that their shell is a little firmer, then it seems like the cheese would have to be pressed at least with a light weight to obtain a better knit.

-Boofer-