Cheddaring process

[vonknabe]

I know this is a silly question, but I have to ask, as I have not seen this discussed (in detail) in any recipes or threads:

When making traditional cheddar cheese, I understand about draining the whey from the curds for 15-20 minutes. Then, when the mass of curds is all one piece, we cut it into slices similar to bread slices and "stack" them, as we continue to cook these curd slabs in a hot water bath. All recipes and instructions I have read say to turn these curd slices every 15 minutes, for 2 hours. My specific question is this: Each time we turn the slices, are we supposed to be draining the excess whey out of the pot? Because I always have liquid in the pot, each time I turn the curds. Am I supposed to leave the curds in this small amount of whey, to keep them moist, or get all the liquid out that I can, each time I flip the slices?

I've been getting all the liquid out each time, but seems like my curds are always very dry and tough, and don't press very well. Every once in a while, I get lucky and my wheel comes together nicely, but not always. I also think that part of my problem is I haven't mastered the quantity of Rennet to be used. I had it almost right with store-bought milk, but then my last cheese was made with fresh cow's milk - I realized that I probably should have lessened the amount of rennet by half. As it is, this latest cheese wheel will go in the car, to be used as a spare tire, in case I get a flat.

Thanks!

[zenith1]

Hi Vonknabe and welcome to the forum. The cheddaring of the curds(stacking and turning) is done to stretch and work the curd to help in expressing whey. So you want to have the whey drain away from the curd mass. Cheddar is one of the harder cheeses to get a good curd knit when pressing. It tends to want a significant amount of pressure when pressing-10 to 15 PSI is not out of arena in terms of what is needed. You don't mention how you are determining the correct amount of rennet, but you would not want to cut the amount of rennet in half just because you are using fresh milk. What type of rennet and at what amount are you using? How are you determining your flocculation point and the time to curd cut?

[vonknabe]

Thanks for the quick reply, Z.

I have been playing with the rennet, basically, by trial and error. I am using liquid vegetable rennet. The bottle that came with my beginner cheesemaking kit said it was concentrated, so use only half of what the recipe calls for. I did this, and my curd wouldn't hardly set at all. So, next batch, I used the called for amount of rennet (1 tsp for 2 gallons milk) in the recipe, which rendered me a very nice curd. I continued using this measurement. Then, when I used farm fresh cow's milk on my last batch, my curd was WAY too tough and hard. I was assuming that the amount of rennet should have been adjusted (down) to compensate for whatever good things are in fresh milk (not pasteurized out). Looking back, maybe my curds became too tough because I brought my hot water bath temperature up too quickly, and basically "overcooked" them. Not really sure.....as I said, I am learning everything by trial and error! LOL!

Floccuation? LOL! Had to look that word up! Hm....I don't suppose I am determining a floccuation point other than going off the time in the recipe (45 minutes), and doing a test break with the thermometer. If it looks like a clean break after 45 minutes, I proceed with cutting the curds.

I have seen MUCH discussion on this forum about testing ph and other timed factors throughout the cheesemaking process, but that seemed like scientific mumbo jumbo for those of y'all that make cheese in mass quantities. I considered myself more of a hobby cheesemaker (experimenter!), and went after the project such as one would when baking a cake....just follow a few step-by-step directons and everything will be fine. LOL!

Hey, did I mention that I am a rambler???

[zenith1]

Yes measuring PH is something that you will read a lot about here. Trying to find the elusive "clean break" point is very elusive and takes a lot of experience- try using the spinning bowl technique to determine the point at which flocculation starts. You can find the procedure by searching for it on the forum. Then once you have that time determined you can apply the appropriate flocculation factor for the type of cheese you are making to find the time when you proceed to your curd cut. By using these methods you can be more precise and have repeatable results in future makes. There are commonly used flocculation factors for the various types of cheese. That is one of the methods used to control the amount of moisture in the curd. That and scalding temperature. It all sounds pretty intensive but once you understand some of the basic principals it becomes easier and more enjoyable. Cheers!

[Tomer1]

With veg rennet and my regular milk I usually use about 1.2-1.3 drops per liter of milk so for 10 liters I may add about  12-13 drops to get a set time (fluc) of 12-15 minutes.

Measuring Ph or total acidity is not mambo jumbo, its a way to ensure your getting the best cheese your trying to make. the Final acidity and the acidity in between stages has alot of influence of texture of the cheese.
Overly acidic cheddar will be crumbly and acidic (if not left to age for a LONG time) and not silky smooth melt in your mouth stuff your lookin for.