Argh! Blue!

[Linda]

Good evening...

I have a couple of issues....

Firstly, absolutely everything I make ends up blue!  My parmesan is blue...my reblochon is blue...I know it's a good thing that my blue is blue!  I'm scrupulous about hand washing and sanitizing, and always ensure I never have the different cheeses out at the same time.  Everything is in a seperate container and blues are kept in a different refrigerator than the others.  I don't know if any of my not-supposed-to-be-blues are salvageable - I have been washing the parm with a salt and vinegar mix but this stuff is pretty insidious it seems.  Anyone ever had blue parm?

Any advice regarding the over abundance of blue would be greatly appreciated.

Secondly, my Castle Blue...

I made this on October 16th.  It's from the 200 easy cheeses book and everything seemed to go well at the time.  This evening I cut into it, and it looks ok I guess.  But it does not taste well at all.  It has quite a bitter flavour that lingers.  It was quite firm too.  The flavour is such that no one would want to eat it.  It doesn't smell like blue cheese either - it has a barely discernable "cleaning product" type smell.  Not a success at all. 

Any ideas what may cause the bitter lingering flavour?

As always, advice is greatly appreciated.

Bel

[Gürkan Yeniçeri]

Where do you keep your cultures, would they get cross contaminated?

[Linda]

hmm...they're all kept in individual baggies together in a tupperware type box in the freezer.  I didn't think of that - would make perfect sense though.

Thanks Gurkan - I'll keep them separate in future, but I think I'll be making alot of blue until I use up the latest batch...and I'm ok with that

Bel.

[JeffHamm]

Hi Bel,

Hmm, for bitterness three things come to mind. First, some form of contamination (but I suspect that's not it).  Second, too much rennet was used during the make.  Do you use the floc method?  If so, what was your "floc time"?  If not, how much rennet did you use for how much milk?  In your next batch of cheese, do things as you normally do, but at the time you add the rennet float a small (clean) plastic bowl on the milk (something you might use to keep baby sized meals in type thing) and write the time down (hours, minutes, and seconds; I recommend adding rennet on the start of a new minute for simplicity).  Every minute, tap the bowl lightly.  It will skate around on the milk like a small boat.  Eventually, when you tap it it will start to get sluggish, like it's trying to move through custard.  At that point, start testing it every 30 seconds. Eventually it won't move but it will just stick there, like it's feet are in glue (think the cartoons here).  Write that time down, again, hours, minutes, and seconds.  Figure out how much time has passed since you added the rennet (hence writing the times down and adding rennet at the start of a new minute, it makes this part a bit easier).  So, let's say you added rennet at 10:14:00, and the bowl got stuck at 10:26:30, that means it required 12 minutes and 30 seconds for you to reach the "flocculation point" (gell time, or "floc time" if you want to impress your friends).  If the floc time is shorter than 10 minutes, then you're using too much rennet, so use less next time.  If it takes more than 15 minutes, you're using too little so add more.  Keep notes and adjust your rennet amount until you're getting a floc time between 10 and 15 minutes.  This time is useful for more things than just figuring out how much rennet to use as it can be used to determine when to cut the curds (rather than looking for a clean break).

The other possibility that could lead to bitterness is using too much culture.  How much culture are you adding to your milk (and how much milk too)? 

- Jeff

[ellenspn]

It doesn't smell like blue cheese either - it has a barely discernable "cleaning product" type smell. 

Is that an ammonia smell?

[JeffHamm]

If it smells amonia like, as ellenspn mentions, I think that will dissappear if you leave the cheese out for a while.  It's a by-product of the molds "at work", and because the cheese is kept in a small box or cave, the amonia collects.  In a large natural cave, with air currents, etc, it would naturally be blown away.

- Jeff

[george]

Bel, I've gotten that nasty taste every time that my Stiltons have started to look like the color in your pic - the blue starts turning brownish/greyish.  I think it's from it finally starting to die off?  I tried to age my last few Stiltons to 75-90 days, and found that even 60 days is too long for me (sorry, Sailor!).  There's something about my aging environment or process or something that makes them perfect (for me) much earlier than that - 6-7 weeks, tops, else that color change/die-off happens and it starts to taste just too nasty.  Look for that on the next one and taste it then?

(Fortunately, I found a person (victim?) that thought the "inedible" Stiltons were the best thing ever created.)

[Boofer]

Bel, I've gotten that nasty taste every time that my Stiltons have started to look like the color in your pic - the blue starts turning brownish/greyish.  I think it's from it finally starting to die off?  I tried to age my last few Stiltons to 75-90 days, and found that even 60 days is too long for me (sorry, Sailor!).  There's something about my aging environment or process or something that makes them perfect (for me) much earlier than that - 6-7 weeks, tops, else that color change/die-off happens and it starts to taste just too nasty.  Look for that on the next one and taste it then?

(Fortunately, I found a person (victim?) that thought the "inedible" Stiltons were the best thing ever created.)

I believe I'm in that category as well. I believe Aris has tried to caution Stilton makers about aging to 90 days. Perhaps that is too long for some folks.

-Boofer-

[Tomer1]

90 days require a largish wheel of 800-1000 grams other wise you get too much veining and its really sharp. 

[Linda]

Thanks to all who have responded.

Jeff, I have never used the floc method - I've just followed the recipes in the books I have (and I'm a complete maths dunce it has to be said), but I see it has really come time to work it out and try it.  Thank you so much for your patient explanation of how it works - I will try it with my next cheese.  I used 6.5 quarts of raw milk, 2 cups of raw cream, a quarter tsp of meso and a quarter tsp of rennet for this make.

MaryJ, I never thought of them being aged too long, but that would make sense too.  Although I also felt like the roquefortii mold was seriously aggressive (for want of a better word?) on this particular cheese and I was surprised at the very dark green/grey colour it was on the outside.  My previous blues using the same mold were nothing like this one.  I feel compelled to age for 60 days though, as I'm using raw milk, so I'm not sure what to do about that.  I've made other very successful blues, just not this particular recipe before.

Well, lots of things here to look out for next time, and new things to try. I've separated all my biz bits so hopefully next time that will solve the contamination problem as Gurkan suggested, with everything turning blue.  Until then I will have lots of practice making blue - not such a bad way to spend a day!

Again, thank you to all who have taken the time to reply - I appreciate it greatly.

Bel

[JeffHamm]

Hi,

I've attached an excel book that I use when making cheese.  It will do much of the maths for you (if you have excel of course).

- Jeff

[boothrf]

Great tools Jeff. Thanks 

I particularly liked the brine worksheet. I compared my estimated brine times for my cams with your calculations and they worked out almost the same. I dont know whether your calcs confirm my estimates or vice versa..........either way, we are both on the right track!

[iratherfly]

Bel,
A few things:
First off, when using raw milk you should seriously reduce the amount of starter you are using. 1/4 tsp culture for less than 2 gallons is too much for pasteurized milk, not to mention raw!  Try somewhere between 1/16th and 1/8th teaspoon for your 2 gallon batch.  This, plus using prescribed times instead of the flucculation method (as Jeff mentioned) would open up the door to massive over-acidification.  When your acidification is out of whack, the whole cheese is irreparable. I also am not sure what is your temperature control accuracy, you need to be as accurate as possible.

Blue tends to love cold temperatures, where other competing moulds such as PC and GEO don't thrive as much. Are you aging it in the fridge?  Blue is easy to out-compete with PC or Geo at 55°F or so. If your cheese is at that temperature and you spray a Geo/PC brine (3% salt) onto it, the blue may recede within 2-3 days. Then, blot any remaining spotting with a clean cheesecloth deeped in white vinegar. Also, aging it in the fridge that has yeast, bread or flour product in it may give you that problem.

As for the bitterness, it doesn't seem to me from the photo that the cheese is ammoniated or have any Geo overgrowth. I think it's just acidic and possibly young so proteins and fat lipids have not broken down enough to give you the balanced taste you are after. You seem to have opened this cheese, which has minimum aging time of 4 weeks after only 3 weeks.  Try to avoid the urge and open a cheese when it feels ripe. If you are indeed aging it in cool temperature of a refrigerator, aging could easily take 8 weeks. Aging is even longer when you have a curd which is more acidic than desired. Is your moisture control good? Can you get to 90-95% RH where you age them?

Another note about the bitterness, as Jeff mentioned is the rennet. You may be using the exact prescribed amount but ...is your rennet double strength? That can cause it.  If you are using vegetable rennet you may want to try switching to calf rennet as it is less bitter.
One last point about it; you are using raw milk. Have you eliminated Calcium Chloride from the recipe? Not only do you not need it, but too much Calcium can taste oddly bitter and create a chalky, brittle stiff cheese.

Your piercings look very thick and few. Go thinner and pierce more. This is important; when blue veins develop they soften the cheese by means of preotolysis.