G'Day from Sydney, Australia

[boothrf]

Hey Crystal,

It takes a little while to catch on the the terms our North American friends use

Soft bloomys are Camemberts and Bries
Cream-line is unhomogenised milk (I guess because you can see the cream line?)

All our milk is pasteurised using HTST (high temperature, short time, usually 72C for 15 seconds). We also have UHT milk (ultra heat treated) which we commonly call long life milk.

Due to our warmer climate, virtually all of our milk comes from cows that are pasture fed, with the occasional supplement of silage (fermented hay). Rarely is hard feed such as corn used here.

I wholeheartedly agree with iratherfly regarding milk quality. Even though unhomogenised is more expensive, the results will always be better. I know some Aussie cheesemakers use standard milk quite successfully, but as iratherfly says, its a shame to ruin all your hard work by trying to save a few dollars on milk. The best cheeses in the world are made with the highest quality milk. 

Making Fetta is a great way to learn about curds, formation,stirring etc because the results can be seen and eaten in only day! Try different recipies and milks and see the differences you get, that way you can learn more about the process.

Good luck! 

[Crystal]

Ok, well as i only have a hard cheese kit i wont be attempting a soft camembert any time too soon. I do want to, but i know how much kids love it and i have 6 of the buggers, dont really want to share my hard earned cheese with them!
Ive read about cream line, but we dont have that here do we? Do you know what brand the unhomoginised milk is? I saw an organic one but it was $3.75 a litre! Is it pauls or something? I love feta and so do all the kids, plus its quick and easy and ready in a day so we make a bit of it. But,due to my cheapo milk it is never as... crumbly... as bought feta. Tastes wonderful and is usually soft and creamy tho!

[boothrf]

Crystal, the only unhomogenised milk I am aware of here is Pauls Organic, it is expensive probably because it is organic. There may be other smaller regional dairies that do an unhomogenised, but I'm not aware of them.  I think Dairy Farmers do an "extra dollop" but I'm pretty sure this is still homogenized milk with a little cream added back in.

If you want a crumblier Fetta, try increasing the length of the stirring step. 

[Crystal]

Right, more stirring = more crumbly? But with p&h milk it = smooshed curds..? Argh, i need to do more reading, or less lol! The kids thought my feta was perfect ;-)

It may have been the pauls that i saw, i just didnt look too well. For arguments sake, is there any way to improve my shop milk cheese.

[boothrf]

Yes, it can be confusing at first Crystal. I suggest you go to the following link, which has an index of all the Wiki articles. In here you will find a huge amount of information about the key proceses for making cheese, as well as articles about ingredients and recipes.

https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/board,196.0.html

Don't get discouraged, anyone who can make Fetta, that their kids love, at the first attempt, has got what it takes to make a good cheesemaker! I'd try some better milk and see how much difference there is. Post some photos of your curd and you will get feedback. Lots of us actually make a "cheesalogue" while we are making cheese and post photos as we go. 

Good luck.

[Crystal]

Well bob, as i dont have a computer and im on my phone i cant post pix here, except i can on fb, so i tend to do my cheesealouge (lol) on there.

Oh, and my little secret... im a chef... so im kinda cheating here. I know my way around the kitchen, but they dont teach you so much of the good stuff. I enjoy hands on food, creating something from nothing with my own hands. So ive been making butter, bread, icecream and many other things for years. But this is my first go at cheese and i love it!
Basically, if my kids eat it, its good enough. Except, one of my girls eats everything, dirt covered even. And her twin brother wont eat nearly anything. But, he eats bread, cheese, sausages and apples! So we make as much of it as we can so that atleast hes getting good, healthy, unprocessed food. Plus we grow a few vegies ourselves, and usually eat them before they get to.the kitchen!
So, ill see what i can do about milk and keep posting here and on facebook, so if ur interested message me your fb name and ill add you as mines on private ;-)

[boothrf]

Ha Ha. Well my little secret is I have worked all my life in the food industry, in engineering and operations roles. All the big companies Nestle, Kraft, National Foods, CSR etc. I now work as a contractor in the food industry, so I get to see lots of food being made. My current project happens to be in a cheese factory, so I can get expert advice if I need it!

My kids think I'm a bit weird making cheese....they are grown up now, (17 - 21), but they all enjoy my cheeses when I offer them some! I have always loved cooking too, so my kids have developed a taste for good, home cooked food. I hope they keep it!

I'll send you my fb name and feel free to add me if you wish.

[dthelmers]

Crystal,
Let me jump in here about poor quality milk, as I've worked with it quite a lot. High temperature short time pasteurized milk is difficult to make cheese with, but there are some things that will help. As Iratherfly said, dilute your calcium chloride and stir it in quite well. I use dry calcium chloride crystals which I dissolve in cold filtered water. I use the same amount of calcium chloride crystals as rennet called for in the recipe. I make my initial curd cut a bit larger than called for, and I let it rest after the first cut for 15 minutes to firm up a bit. My first "stirring" is just nudging the curd with the handle of my ladle, making the curds just bump against each other. As they start to shrink, I try to just turn them in place, bringing the bottom to the top. As they shrink, they get sturdier and I can actually stir them, and by that time they are acting like the curd of real milk.
Having said that, there is nothing like good milk. Make a batch from unhomogenized milk so you can see what curd ought to be like. Consider the expense as taking a cheese making class. It will reward you with a great curd and a successful cheese, and will be your benchmark.
There are so many variables to watch in making cheese, so shattering curd really clouds what's going on. I understand about costs, though. One of the reasons I make cheese is so I can afford to eat it. I make cheese from cheap milk, and when I can afford it I make it from good raw Jersey milk from a local farm, and many times I use a combination of the two. Even one quarter part of good milk makes a huge difference in the curd.
I've also found that larger batches work better for me. My first cheeses were one gallon batches, and it was easy to go astray on temperature and acidification. I went to two gallon batches and it was easier. I went to four gallon batches and found I had great control through the whole process.

[iratherfly]

Yes Dave, you and I have discussed it in the past. This also has a lot to do with the type of cheese you are targeting as some cheeses are more sensitive to it than others. Homoganization is a discussion in its own right so I will just say in short that there is less mineral content, there are coagulation issues and aging issues that can cause dense grainy texture or rancidity of fats with sharpness and flavor effects. It also guarantees that you make less cheese per given amount of milk and you can't just fix it by loading the milk up with more Calcium because that would just make it more grainy and give you an overly hard or even brittle cheese. There are also digestion issues with making these fat globules so small that humans can digest them freely.

As for the financials... I have a different outlook on it, but that's my personal cognition.  The way I see it, I want to make cheese that is phenomenally good which I can use and savor. I am not looking to mimic the $6.99/Lbs industrial supermarket cheddar (though it has its place too). If I am going to labor my heart out at it and care for this wheel like a baby for the next 6 months I want to use my precious time wisely to raise a great aging candidate that will stand up to those $100 wheels in the best cheese shops ($24.99/Lb. x4 Lbs. wheel, typical 4"x7.5" Tomme). When you use these recipes and aim at gorgeous rind, incredibly supple texture and inspiring aroma for a truly exceptional wheel with depth - everything counts. The animal breed, the feed, the season, the milk treatment etc. If I spend $25 on milk instead of $10; so be it. Why do all this work for a second grade product? Getting the $100 wheel ouf of $25 is still a darn great deal in my opinion. Besides, good food is expensive (or I should really say, bad food is cheap).

Growing hormone-free, antibiotic-free, pasture-grazing happy cows, caring for them, milking them responsibly and processing milk that is gently pasteurized or raw so it has short shelf life -  it's just more expensive than hormone driven corn eating cows that live in closed quarters, never see the light of day and are fed antibiotics throughout their lifetime. By the way, did you know that 80% of antibiotics in the US end in cow's diets?

[Crystal]

Thanks dt, ill do some reading of the processes and about milk. I have 6 kids eating my cheese, so mostly as long as its edible, its good enough. But yes, as soon as i want a good cheese i will use better milk. Wow, cheese yoda... i grew up on a dairy farm, in the milking shed, so i know a bit about australian dairy farming. I know our cows roamed far and wide, i had to cross the paddocks to get to school. I also know we grew feed in two paddocks and never fed corn or grain as i played in the corn silo and it was always empty. Im starting to think that perhaps we were on an organic dairy farm as we never gave anything to the cows except the lucern we grew. Ive helped birth a calf (ewww). Ive ridden a brahman bull. We had horses and i went on my first big muster on my horse at 8yrs old. Was not a fan of spending the night on the ground in the bush with a few thousand cows. But, i appreciate milk and know what its like, at least on our farm, to raise cows.
BUt, i promise, over the weekend ill make a feta with good milk, but the kids will keep getting cheap milk cheese!

[Crystal]

Oh, dave (?) Yesterday instead of stirring the first time i jiggled the pot, and i did wait about ten mins after the cut to jiggle. So tbat did help keep a bit of the curd together. But not a lot! Ill wait more and go slower on the next batch and will remember to dilute the calcium.. i make 8lt batches which is supposedly 2gal. But i know that isnt the right conversion! Cos 1 gal is actually 3.8L... would this conversion be affecting the curd since the cal and rennet are dosed for 7.6L and im using 8L?

[dthelmers]

As for the financials... I have a different outlook on it, but that's my personal cognition.  The way I see it, I want to make cheese that is phenomenally good which I can use and savor. I am not looking to mimic the $6.99/Lbs industrial supermarket cheddar (though it has its place too). If I am going to labor my heart out at it and care for this wheel like a baby for the next 6 months I want to use my precious time wisely to raise a great aging candidate that will stand up to those $100 wheels in the best cheese shops ($24.99/Lb. x4 Lbs. wheel, typical 4"x7.5" Tomme). When you use these recipes and aim at gorgeous rind, incredibly supple texture and inspiring aroma for a truly exceptional wheel with depth - everything counts. The animal breed, the feed, the season, the milk treatment etc. If I spend $25 on milk instead of $10; so be it. Why do all this work for a second grade product? Getting the $100 wheel ouf of $25 is still a darn great deal in my opinion. Besides, good food is expensive (or I should really say, bad food is cheap).

I'm in full agreement with you on this. However, sometimes lately the $25 just isn't there. Sometimes the $10 just isn't there, and we just don't eat cheese that week, we make some delicious rice and  beans. I'm getting really good at that, and a lot of Indian vegetarian cooking. Probably a lot healthier without the meat, anyway. I started making things myself for the joy of it, and now I find that they were really great skills to acquire for lean times. I make the best cheese I can with the best milk I can afford at the time, so I go for the quicker ripening cheeses with the cheaper milk. Styles with longer pre-ripening times help the native lack of flavor of P/H milk, such as Lancaster or my fast ripening cheddar.
Hard times don't last forever, and then I'll be back to that wonderful raw Jersey milk! In the interim, I do the best I can.

[Crystal]

Im in the same budget boat at you dave. I have 6 kids, 2 ten mo babies, 2 two yo babies, a four yo and an 11 yo. We go through about 50L of milk every two weeks, so i have tp get the cheapest milk. We also stick to basic staples of rice, pasta, potatos now their cheap, mince, sausages and chicken thats on sale. I have to be very creative everyday to make different dishes witb the same ingredients. We make yogurt cos its about $7L here. I buy the cheapest cheese which is cheaper than i can make it for anyway. But yes, ill keep at it with my cheap milk cheese and look for a dairy i can steal raw milk from as its illegal to sell it here. I think i might find one not too far away, maybe an hour out towards windsor... not that you guys know where that is... lol! They have a lot of grass... so there may be a small dairy out that way... i do know there is a small working farm about twenty mins from here. They do open farm days and you can take the kids up to muck around milking and getting eggs, but doubt theyd get much milk... ill check tho.

[dthelmers]

Oh, dave (?) Yesterday instead of stirring the first time i jiggled the pot, and i did wait about ten mins after the cut to jiggle. So tbat did help keep a bit of the curd together. But not a lot! Ill wait more and go slower on the next batch and will remember to dilute the calcium.. i make 8lt batches which is supposedly 2gal. But i know that isnt the right conversion! Cos 1 gal is actually 3.8L... would this conversion be affecting the curd since the cal and rennet are dosed for 7.6L and im using 8L?

Yes, that could have an effect. Search the forum for "flocculation", and use the flocculation point to correct your rennet amount instead of a given recipe. Think of the recipe as a starting point, and then make corrections, because the amount of rennet needed is going to change with your milk, the time of year, the age of your rennet, the position of the planets, the mood of your dog, and the caprice of nature. So observe the flocculation time you get today, and increase or decrease your rennet accordingly a drop more or less at a time on your next batch.
And treat yourself to the best milk you can get, at least once, so you can feel what it should be like. That will help you get the feel of the curd. But your curd problems really sound like high heat short time pasteurization. I have one brand of milk that's like that here; I can make cheese with it, but I really have to coax it. another trick is to make cross cuts twice the size of what you want, don't make the horizontal cuts yet, and wait 10 minutes, then make your proper cuts. All this fussing about with the fragile curd can take longer, so watch your acidification. After a year of making hard cheeses, my daughter asked me to make cottage cheese, which I had never done. It's a pretty good way to get familiar with the curd process and see more immediate results. You can try different cut sizes, healing times, etc. on each batch and observe the effects, and it still comes out cottage cheese.
And if you have a batch where no matter what you do the curd disintegrates, just drain it in cheesecloth in a colander, gather up the corners and let it hang, and make an OK fromage blanc. Been there and done that trying out a new brand of supermarket milk.

[Crystal]

Hmm, i have read a little about flocculation... ill look into it more tho. I do love good cheese so will use better milk to make some nice cheese for me, but cheap milk for the kids and cottage cheese and a few other quick ones as they are kids and dont need $100 quality wheels of farm house cheddar!
I cant wait to get some better milk now tho!