Where to start with small mold ripened cheese?

[dthelmers]

Iratherfly, this is directed toward you. In another thread we had an exchange about milk affordability, and you said:

Thanks Dave! I agree, though my personal preference is that if I only have $10 and not $25, I would prefer making a smaller cheese to a larger one of lesser quality. Again, that's a personal preference.

You've convinced me. I have access to great raw Jersey milk from a local farm for $7.50 a gallon; I can afford to get a gallon and start to learn to make small excellent cheeses like you make. I admire all the cheeses that you've shared with us, although I am unfamiliar with most of them, but I'd like to become familiar.
I have MM100, TA 50, and LH cultures, PC Neige, and both calf and vegetable rennet. Any suggestions on what I can make with what I have on hand, improvising some molds?
If not, where do I start, and what do I need to start? Are some of them easier than others? I'm ready to move out of my comfort zone of hard pressed cheeses.
Thanks in advance, Dave

[iratherfly]

How exciting! Thanks Dave!

I think you have everything you need to make an excellent Chaource or Brie de Melun style.  I would actually do a semi-lactic instead of Camembert; they are ready sooner, more flavorful and easier to make.

https://cheeseandchampagne.com/2008/12/09/chaource-france/
http://www.cheesesoffrance.com/more_on_cheese.html?expandable=0&show=Chaource&sel=Chaource

http://www.cheeseonline.fr/french-cheese/cow-milk/brie-de-melun.html

[dthelmers]

Hi Iratherfly,
I used a gallon of raw Jersey milk, and your recipe for chaource, on December 11th, and opened it today. I believe that I didn't drain the curd long enough, as the cheese was quite moist, and exactly matched your description, "dry thick gummy slip skin", but not so bad that the cheese didn't ripen inside. After the PC established, it got some orange color to the rind, and a stronger smell. Maybe volunteer B. Linens? There was a thin but quite liquid layer under the rather thick and gummy rind, but the rest of the paste was smooth and creamy, soft but not runny. The flavor is quite good, although there is a slight edge of bitterness. Other than that, it is quite complex, full bodied, rich, and leaves me wanting just one more bite after the one more bite I just took. I'll try this again with a longer drain period. By the way, I used MM100 and PC Neige, no Geo (don't have any). The orange color just showed up in the last day or so, along with the strong smell. does this often happen? In the pictures of Chaource I've seen, it looks like they have some too. thanks for all the help!

[iratherfly]

Hi Dave, sorry for the late reply, I could have sworn that I answered this one already! Strange!

Yes, these cheeses are some of the easiest cheeses in the world to make, but the aging is the tricky part. Don't despair though, you seem to be close.  The orange color looks like it is brownish; I think it's ammonia. MM100 is perfect culture for this cheese. PC Neige may be slightly too aggressive, if you have PC VS I would switch. Aggressive PC tends to grow faster, denser and higher and breaks down the paste very fast. Moreover, creating the rind too soon would trap all that moisture inside before it gets to dissipate which makes this situation worst.

The other thing is, try to keep the form factor true to the original cheese. This is especially true for bloomy and washed cheeses. They mature from the outside in as you know, and the form of them determine to a large extent their maturation time, speed and final texture. (Think of it in terms of how far are two opposite rinds from one another. It's like two groups digging on two ends of a tunnel. When and where will they meet?) If you change the proportion and size of the cheese, you will need to modify your affinage to accomadate this. With your brie-like shape I would say you need to age it in very cold temperature, lower humidity from 95%-96% to around 90%-92% and make sure that the aging container leaves at least 70% air.

The bottom line though is that this defect is related to insufficient draining and possibly aging at high RH (and/or high temp) from the beginning.  These semi-lactics require more draining than you think is possible... it always surprises me how much more they can be dried and how much better they become.

[dthelmers]

Thanks for your help. I think it was a moisture issue, primarily. The cheese was very wet, difficult to turn, and stuck to the mat. I'll definitely drain for longer on the next one, as it retained quite a lot of moisture. What do you think about cutting the curd a bit first, before ladling?
The orange color was definitely a brown orange, and there was a smell of ammonia. With all of that, though, the cheese was quite tasty, though just a bit bitter. I think that it just got ahead of me. I removed the rind, which didn't taste very good, and brought it to work with me, where a co-worker and I ate it over the course of a week. There was a little bit left on the following Monday, and I finished it off, but it had gotten distinctly more bitter.
I'll try this again, try to drain it better, and age it colder and less humid as you said.

[iratherfly]

This type of curd is rather soft and difficult to cut and keep stable without making the whey milky and losing a lot of cheese.  Pre-drain the curd. That's the only right way to do it. Ladle into a cheesecloth, close and hang it so it drains for 6-12 hours or so. It will get more firm and ready to go.

At this point you should ladle it carefully into the mould and it's okay to spread it with a knife tightly to make it more dense.  Some more commercial French producers, instead of moulding it at this point -unload it into a bowl. They salt and mix it to taste (delicious spreadable cheese after salting actually). Then wait 30-120 minutes as more the whey is expelled out because of the salt, and only then they ladle it.  The good thing about this method is that it is drier and you never over-salt the cheese because you actually get to taste it.  The bad part of it is that if you crush the curd like that rather than naturally layer it where it tears and knots together from the pot or the draining cloth, you will get cheese that is a bit too uniform and homogenous in texture. It will crumble when it breaks rather than flake in layers.  It won't be a bad cheese by any means and I have done it with this method many times; it's just the texture isn't as good as it could be.

For your next cheese, are you planning the same form factor? Or do you have a taller mould that can work better?  This cheese would be ideal at 2.5"-3" tall and about the same diameter. Chevre or larger Crottin mould would be perfect.

[fied]

I have to say that I often drain soft cheeses in cheesecloth, or line the mould with it, and carefully preserve the layers while doing so. That's because supermarket milk in Glasgow is so awful that I often have problems with coagulation and don't want to lose curds to milky whey. The cheesecloth marks disappear mostly once the cheese is out of the mould and forming a bloom.

[dthelmers]

This type of curd is rather soft and difficult to cut and keep stable without making the whey milky and losing a lot of cheese.  Pre-drain the curd. That's the only right way to do it. Ladle into a cheesecloth, close and hang it so it drains for 6-12 hours or so. It will get more firm and ready to go.

I drained it for 4 hours. Next time I'll go 12.

At this point you should ladle it carefully into the mould and it's okay to spread it with a knife tightly to make it more dense.  Some more commercial French producers, instead of moulding it at this point -unload it into a bowl. They salt and mix it to taste (delicious spreadable cheese after salting actually). Then wait 30-120 minutes as more the whey is expelled out because of the salt, and only then they ladle it.  The good thing about this method is that it is drier and you never over-salt the cheese because you actually get to taste it.  The bad part of it is that if you crush the curd like that rather than naturally layer it where it tears and knots together from the pot or the draining cloth, you will get cheese that is a bit too uniform and homogenous in texture. It will crumble when it breaks rather than flake in layers.  It won't be a bad cheese by any means and I have done it with this method many times; it's just the texture isn't as good as it could be.

I put it in a bowl and salted it, but didn't wait. I just put it into the mold. I believe you that the texture could be better, but I was very pleased with this texture. Very pleased with the whole cheese, in fact, except that it got ahead of me and had a bit of bitterness.

For your next cheese, are you planning the same form factor? Or do you have a taller mould that can work better?  This cheese would be ideal at 2.5"-3" tall and about the same diameter. Chevre or larger Crottin mould would be perfect.

This is the only mold I have right now, but I could make a 2 gallon batch next time, that should give a better proportion. And if it comes out better than the last one, there's no problem going through it fast enough. Thanks for your tutelage on this! I've gotten pretty regular with pressed cheese, but this type intimidated me. I'd like to get comfortable with them.