Goats milk gouda- what changes to make from cows milk?

[Myrrh]

Hello Everyone!
I've made several goudas now that I am quite happy will using recipes from Peter Dixon's site and from the wacheese site using store bought whole cow's milk. I finally have access to fresh nubian goat milk (insert happy dance here) in 4-6 gallon batches, and after having had  success making feta, brie, and my version of Humbolt Fog with it, I am ready to embark on hard cheese adventures with my new milk. Do any of you knowledgeable folk have any thoughts on changes I should make to the recipe when using goat milk rather then cow? I know the acidity tends to be a bit different. Any information is much appreciated!
Thanks so much!

[linuxboy]

Use lower temp (overall 2-4 degrees, no lower than 85F to start, else rennet will not set as well). Wash longer, letting water extract more calcium. And use a slightly larger pH drop before rennet, assuming you are using classic DL blend for cultures.

biggest challenge to overcome is you have to make sure those larger micelles break down enough before fusing, without having runaway acidity. Water and slower cultures are your friend. Lower temp is personal pref, you can keep same schedule. If you want, adjunct with helveticus (HelvA or FLAV), or use Kazu.

[Myrrh]

Thanks so much for the input!

I've been using MM100 and FD, so should I go down to say 6.50 before adding rennet? I will go a bit cooler and wash with more water.

I haven't been able to find anywhere to get Danisco's FLAV cultures. Do you have any suggestions for where to get them in the US? Thanks again! I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge.

[linuxboy]

6.5 is quite good (at least .1 drop). If you're using FD, can go lower because of how slow FD is to kick off. Gouda is really tough to overacidify because of the wash. Contact your preferred supplier directly (danlac, glengarry, DCI, etc), they'll get it for you. IMHO, it's not so much the amt of water as it is the duration. Even a 20% wash is respectable for goat gouda. If you want to achieve more intense notes in gouda, it is the NSLAB that matter more.

If you are making a young 3-4 month gouda, can add in some low-gas l. lactis diacetylactis at .4-.6% bulk if you want a tad more richness. works great with the lower temp range.

[Myrrh]

Thanks for all the great details! I will make sure to wash the cheese for a longer period of time- maybe 50 minutes instead of 25 (or should I focus on pH). As far as a low gas l. lactis diacetylactis, would a MA4001 or MD088 work, or are those higher gas? I have MA4001, but not the MD088. Sorry for all the questions. I'm loathe to just give it a try with this lovely milk compared to store bought cow milk. Thanks again!

[linuxboy]

pH should take care of itself with this cheese. With the caveat that must drain by 6.0. Washing really shifts the approach because of the lactose removal. MD088 works very well here. You can also try BT01 as an alternative to FD, although that acidifies a little faster than FD. Another approach you can take is to do the washing in a staggered way. First, do a 10% wash like you do a gouda. Then cook to completion and drain off whey, then add more water and let the curds soak in the water a little. I know I'm giving you many options here, likely you just want a single best approach to make an excellent cheese. And they all come out great, but subtly different. Depends on what you're trying to achieve. For example, if you want to sell the cheese in 2-3 months and have high moisture to sell more water, it helps to adjunct with both diacetyl and FHL. If you want a 12-18 month approach, that does better with a lower moisture and different bacteria mix. If you share your targets for maturation, flavor profile, aging conditions, I can help dial it in more.

[Myrrh]

I don't mind all the options! Someday I hope to have enough time to more thoroughly educate myself on the science of cheese making. While I am still in school however, I should probably focus on the subjects that I am paying tuition for - occasionally they overlap, and that is pretty exciting. I appreciate your willingness to share your deeper understanding on the topic.

I'm relatively new to hard cheeses, so I am still experimenting. So far I have been tasting my cheeses starting at about a month just so that I can have a better understanding of how the flavors are changing. I think most of my cheeses will be aging in the shorter time range, but I would like to have a few in the back of the cave that I hold for 12-18 months. I like smooth bodied cheeses with a good amount of moisture, and buttery flavor is definitely a plus. I try to keep my cave at about 70-80% humidity, but I don't have great control at this point since I use a water dish at the bottom of a small wine fridge. I've been dealing with that by vacuum sealing once I have a good rind- at 3 weeks to a month.

Based on your suggestions I think for this gouda I will wash it like I did the cow milk ones, and then soak the curds in water again once I have drained them making sure I have drained by 6. I'll order some MD088 and give it a try on my next make.
Thanks so much again!

[linuxboy]

Sounds solid. Will give you a sliceable cheese with pleasant, buttery notes.. like a better version of monterey jack. great all-around functional and nibble cheese.

IMHO, goat milk hard cheeses tend to suffer from a sort of back chalkiness. If you have ever had some local Marin/Sonoma goat cheeses, you know what I mean... this kind of mineral dryness that you feel on molars. This is due to the uneven micellar breakdown that happens coupled with high rennet pH. washing and acidifying before rennet, and slowing down rate of reaction all help to mitigate it. Good luck.

[Myrrh]

Thanks for all the great details! It's in progress now, so hopefully it will turn out as planned.

I know what you mean about the chalkiness. I am not a big fan of many of the local hard goat cheeses for that reason. Maybe I should be asking a different question- with access to good fresh high fat goat milk for the next several months, are there any hard cheeses that you particularly recommend I try? I like the soft mold ripened ones a great deal, but I can only eat/share so much, so I am hoping that by making hard cheese I can extend the joy.

Thanks again for being so generous with your expertise!

[linuxboy]

Hope it turns out great. There are generally three categories of hard cheeses that one should make from normal goat milk:

- The engineered, higher-moisture, faster ripened ones. Not many good examples of this. I can't think of any. These cheeses are like the ones we're discussing. They require some finaggling with the make and affinage to achieve good results.
- The intermediate moisture, intermediate aged. These are the majority of tomme derivatives designed to develop more intense flavor.
- The longer-aged thermos and similar low moisture. It takes a fine hand and good milk to pull this off

I don't think many makers fine tune their approaches to best work with the biochemistry of goat milk. For example, I see many using mixed breeds designed more for chevre and various French bloomies, and they try to pull off the second category. End result is as mentioned... decent, but could be better. If your milk is like this, then have to make adjustments to mitigate the texture issues.

Or to put it another way... think of all the good and great hard goat cheeses out there, like Garrotxa. They either use excellent milk with more fat in it (such as from Grenadina goats), or they will wash the curd. Garrotxa does both.

Try a few variations on this current style you're doing, and then let's focus on something else, like using rinds to create different flavors, or altering culture blends or temps or moisture levels. It's all the same basic recipe, mostly tomme derivatives

[Myrrh]

Thanks for all the great information! I will experiment with a few more gouda's and then try some tomme style cheeses. I would rather focus on cheeses that take advantage of the qualities of the milk I am working with.

My gouda looks pretty good. I added rennet at 6.5, drained at 6.1, and soaked in water for 20min before pressing. My only concern is that after pressing overnight the pH was 5.2- seems pretty low.

[linuxboy]

Just a tad low terminal pH, but not the end of the world. Brine it and should age out nicely

[Myrrh]

Thanks so much for all your help!

[Myrrh]

I'm getting ready to try another goat milk gouda this week, and I have a few more questions.

It looks like the KAZU culture has the addition of some LH on top of the LL, LC, and LD of the MA100 culture. Any thoughts on how that might change the flavor profile? I am debating on trying one or two more gouda's with the same MA100 + FD culture before trying different cultures, and trying a different culture right away.

Also, I am hoping to get some raw milk analysis done next week (SCC, coliforms, and complete plate count). If things look good I am hoping to add a gallon of raw milk to my 5 gallons of pasteurized to increase the level of NSLAB. If I do that should I make any changes to the recipe?

Thanks for any input!

[Tomer1]

No need for both FD + MA100. If you want buttery just use FD.

KAZU will likely give you more flavor, faster.