Anyone experimented with aging in wax vs a lard/shortening bandage? I read a comment somewhere else that waxing was a debilitating way to age cheese because it cut off so much of the gas exchange or something like that. Said bandaging would bring a bunch more flavor. Was curious as I'm getting to the end of my air dry period and was trying to decide which way to go. Also wondering if it matters what kind of cheese when making this choice. I think the commenter was talking about cheddar being bandaged, but not sure. I have a manchego and gouda that I'd be aging (farmhouse cheddar already in wax).
I have similar questions and am watching this thread.
All I can say is that when I wax the cheese is white, moist and crumbly and tastes okay-when I bandage I get a firm, supple, yellow cheese that tastes outstanding. From the same batch. I use ghee to glue the bandage and I press it into the rind. Mind you I once had a cloth bound one dry completely out-so no expert!
Nessa
Well, that sounds pretty definitive Blackthorn! What kind of cheese were you bandaging? I like the twist of using ghee...
It was (surprise, surprise!) a cheddar. I made one before that dried out which was a stirred cheddar, I think it was too small (500g) and dried out, the other was 1 1/2 kgs and aged beautifully-I just peeled the mouldy bandage away at the end of ageing and had a beautiful tasty cheese with less than a 1mm of rind! Then life intervened and I didn't make cheese again for 6 months (when I cracked open the cheddar and wished I hadn't stopped!)........I hope I can replicate my success! Have you checked out Ricki Carrols website? It has a cloth binding demo in the cheddar recipe. The ghee worked fabulously :)
Nessa
Great, thanks...
I have looked at her site and I have her book too. Sometimes, however, I find her instructions frustratingly vague and even a little inconsistent between website/book/kit. I got her cheesemaking kit for a wedding present, and the recipes in there are actually quite different than her book. I wasn't sure which way to go, but decided the book was probably more authoritative.
The book is very helpful, it just leaves some big gaps...maybe because of the way it's organized, with equipment and ingredients listed separately, and then recipes that give vague outlines that seem somewhat different than what's said in the preceding chapters. It seems like cheese is pretty precision based, and I would love to just have a clearer step by step with options at each step. The bandaging is a perfect example. At the beginning she says to try bandaging cheddar cheese, and describes how. But none of the cheddar recipes mention bandaging, they all say wax. Are there some that are better waxed?
Anyway, not meant to be a Rikki Carroll rant, after all she got me launched into this. I'm just glad this forum exists!
I wonder if manchego/gouda can be waxed, or if it's just cheddar...I might try it.
My Gouda gets waxed. and I know Carter has a book that says you can wax Parmesan...
:)
My Gouda's are waxed as well and I think traditionally are waxed. I think that Carter's 'book' is maybe referring to the fact that if you are having difficulties controlling the environments during aging hard cheeses, you can wax them. It may deter from the style a bit but better to have a good cheese that has wax on it versus a cheese that is destroyed by either too low of humidity or improper aging conditions.
As for the "Rikki book" I've found it to be very inconsistent as well. They are good starting point in there and starting recipes - however they beg to ask a lot of questions. Which like you said is why most of us probably are here... :)
Ryan
Are you guys that are waxing your goudas (why does that sound obscene?) making aged goudas? Like the delicious Rembrandt mentioned in another thread? It's so much harder and flakier than a regular gouda, I wondered if it gets that way while waxed...I guess maybe it's just the amount of time left in there. Anyone have a set amount of months before your gouda is considered "aged" in that manner? I think with the manchego I'll stick with olive oil...
Those gouda's like Beemster and Rembrant are older goudas that go natural.
My gouda is freshly waxed, but I'm I've been told it tastes great.
(btw. I'm not sure why you thought your previous was obscene)
;)
Hey, I'm brand new here but I thought I'd pipe in with a wee bit of info based on my limited bandaging experience. The one thing that was not addressed much above was the drying effect of a bandaged cheese. Over time, bandaged cheese will dry out; so its necessary to apply fresh coats of whatever you used, lard, shortening or whatever your imagination has conjured up. Probably about monthly would be good. In this way, you can age for quite extended periods without suffering loss of quality.
do you lard over any growing mold?
You'd have to since you don't want to rewrap the cheese. I'd think that if it was getting really fuzzy you might want to do some gentle scraping first.
what a mess. How much do you put on?
This is a good discussion. I am working on batch #6 of Gouda now-moved from one pound horn to 4 lb wheel. My question is-where does the vacuum wrap fit in? I tried wax and seemed to have problems covering, the wax was not sticking and weeping. Was this due to not dry enough? Maybe not enough rind?
I may be nuts, but thought I would try a batch of Manchego tonight. Never had any, but sounds good.
Dave
Dave I would say that the cheese was not dry enough if the wax is not sticking. Weeping is a problem of the whey not either being cooked out enough, or the press not heavy enough. Wayne maybe able to help you more with that.
Has anyone tried tallow as opposed to lard?
Wayne - two options: you can melt the lard/shortening and brush it on or dip it; or you can just smear on the solid form.
Dave - If your wax does not adhere then your cheese is likely wet. It shouldn't be after 2 to 3 weeks unwaxed. Are you getting a good rind during that time? BTW Manchego is a fantastic cheese. I recommend you add 1 tsp of liquid smoke (hickory is my favorite) for each gal. of milk. Or some diced jalepenos.
I gotta say, I kinda liked shmearing it on by hand... The best part is chasing the women-folk around afterward with arms outstreatched.
;)
I've read as much as I could find about bandaging and decided to try it. While I enjoy working with wax, I am ready to try another method for longer aging of some cheeses. Since my cheeses tend to be small and I want more than a thick rind (and I dont have a vacuum sealer), I bandage wrapped 2 small parms, and a Jack with dill and onion. It did take a lot of time to do, but the third took much less time than the first. 8)
The first photo is of the two parms, made a week apart from 4 gallons of milk each. They are about 3 inches tall and 6 inches across. The wrap is unbleached muslin, and the fat on one is ghee, and the other is half ghee and half olive oil (not extra virgin). I would have used all ghee because it has such a nice scent and flavor, but when your hands are slick, accidents happen and I spilled some in the process. :o
The second cheese, whiter in color, is the dilly-Jack, and it is wrapped in a much finer curtain material. It is about 4 inches tall and 6 inches across. You can see the bits of dill through the material. Also a ghee/olive oil mix. I like that mix because it is essentially liquid at room temp, but solidifies when cooler. It still tastes like ghee but is more cost effective.
So now to wait till these cheeses are older to see if this works. :)
Looking good there, Gina!
Will you allow them to mold over?
While I love everything about a muslin bandage and lard, I've never been able to keep the mold off the wheels.
I have ended up re-wrapping my cheddars in vacuum sealed plastic....
Bump Wayne's question. I was wondering the same thing.
QuoteWill you allow them to mold over?
Yes, that is the current plan, but I am no authority. My new cave tends to have lower humidity so molds might not grow as rampantly. In my readings here, I did see a photo of a bandaged cheese that simply was over-run with 3-D mold, and if that happens to mine, I intend to bush/wipe them down - hopefully before they get too bad. I do expect them to have lots of mold and be multi-colored, but kept under some control.
One thing I've noticed is that some cheeses are single wrapped with material, and others double wrapped. Mine are double-wrapped. And from just using two different types of material, I would guess some materials would be more sturdy and stand up better to brushing.
I'm looking for an aging treatment intermediate between natural rind and waxed/vacuum sealed and am hoping this is it. Time will tell. :)
Quote from: Wayne Harris on August 19, 2010, 06:47:58 PM
While I love everything about a muslin bandage and lard, I've never been able to keep the mold off the wheels.
Every cloth cheddar I've seen has natural mold. They're dry brushed for maintenance, and the mold populations in the caves tend to be of ones that contribute positive flavor, but you just leave them and brush every so often.
[/quote]They're dry brushed for maintenance, and the mold populations in the caves tend to be of ones that contribute positive flavor, but you just leave them and brush every so often.
[/quote]
How does one insure that the molds in a cave are friendly? does Mother Nature have a control?
This is one of my big concerns as I get finishing on my cave
The control is you. Unless the cave is natural, it will be fairly sterile at the onset. Then as microbial communities establish, you have to watch and control them manually, by brushing, chemically, by salting/brining, or through environmental conditions by adjusting temp and humidity. After a while, the resident colonies will stay and the cave will support them.
At the onset, you have to fight the bad molds and encourage the good, or try to inoculate the cave by introducing commercial molds and yeasts and bacteria to get things going.
Even in established caves, rind management is necessary. Sometimes I have to use ethanol for stubborn molds.
I wonder how Star San would work for controlling unwanted mold in the cave. Not on the cheeses of course.
I have used lard bandages on cheddars on the open shelf in the basement over the winter and it worked well. The interesting thing is that I can turn the moldy cheeses wearing gloves for the first few months. After about 4 months the mold dries out and makes like a brown crusty second skin - at that point I no longer get a rash, only when the mold is green. After the mold turns brown the bandage and the mold can be peeled off really easy before eatting.
BTW real Lard works better than Crisco
Quote from: DeejayDebi on August 25, 2010, 02:56:41 AM
...
BTW real Lard works better than Crisco
When you say "real" do you mean the tasty and fragrant lard one gets by rendering pork fat? Mmmmm. :)
Quote from: DeejayDebi on August 25, 2010, 02:56:41 AMAfter about 4 months the mold dries out and makes like a brown crusty second skin
So you don't try to control, or stop the mold in any way?
You can knock it down with a brush so it doesn't get real thick, but don't use a brine or anything like that. After awhile it will almost look like a canvas or something. Cheddar with a lard bandage has a very complex aged flavor like a 6 year old even when only a year old.
QuoteCheddar with a lard bandage has a very complex aged flavor like a 6 year old even when only a year old.
I know it's tradition that cheddars are bandaged, but do you think the same "complex aged flavor" can be achieved with other types of cheeses if bandaged?
The cheeses (parmesan and a dilly-Jack) I bandaged a couple weeks ago are showing no signs of mold, which sort of surprises me.
I don't believe I have ever seen green molds on parms but they will grow a white dusty mold (I forget what is called) but that tells you it's gonna be goood! An aged romano or Asiago will grow the same white mold.
IMHO, a parm that has an imperfect rind, will grow various moldies...
All of my parms that have had imperfect rinds, have had some kind of moldies grow on them.
All of my parms with really good rinds, are free from mold.
When I get back home this weekend, i will take pictures of the differences i have.
Maybe because I polish my rinds with oil and they are silky and smooth. Now mind you they will grow on the lard for a few months but I've never had them on the cheese itself.
Ditto. I polish my cheese regularly as well.
shut up carter.. I can hear you thinking of a response all the way down here in Houston.
;)
I think Wayne will agree that polishing really makes a difference when trying to combat mold. I light wipe with a damp cheesecloth soaked in brine works wonders on a smooth rind. Doesn't do diddly on a cracked lumpy rind.