I have made my second and third swiss-style cheeses over the past two weekends, and with some trepidation, I am sharing photos and make notes here. I would much welcome input on things I should be doing differently!
Basic recipe from Rikki Carroll's Home Cheese Making (Traditional Swiss, p. 122).
3 gallons whole milk (Hunter Farm brand from Harris Teeter, a local grocery chain)
3/4 tsp CaCl
3/16 tsp TA061
3/16 tsp PS
1/8 tsp LH100
1/2 tsp single strength liquid calf rennet (bought from Artisan Geek)
saturated brine
- Milk was brought to 90˚ F (overshot to 93˚); CaCl added and stirred in; cultures sprinkled on, let hydrate 5 minutes, stirred in. Cultured for 10 minutes.
- 1/2 tsp rennet mixed into 1/4 cup of water added. Allowed to set up for 30 minutes. Clean break (picture 1 below).
- Cut into 1/4" rows and columns vertically (picture 2). Using a new cutter (pictures 3, 4, 5, described below), cut into 1/4" horizontally (picture 6 shows result).
- Stirred for 40 minutes while holding at 90˚ F (picture 7; temperature had drifted back down to target by this time).
- Temperature raised to 120˚ over approximately 40 minutes (a bit slower than called for in the book);
- Stirred at 120˚ for another 10 minutes (book called for 30, but curd felt right -- pictures 8 and 9) and let rest for 5
- Drained (picture 10; whey reserved to make ricotta) and put in mold (picture 11).
- Pressed for 6-7 hours, flipping 3-4 times, increasing weight from 7.5 lbs initially to 30 lbs final. Knit was good; weight after pressing was 2.93 lbs. (picture 12)
- Put in saturated brine for 15 hours, removed, patted dry, put in "cave" to dry for a week. Weight after brining was 2.85 lbs.
Those are some amazing looking pea sized curds, awakephd! Very consistent. Nice horizontal cutter too! Clever design! I'm sure a lot of people here would like to get their paws on such a cutter! Well done!
Now for the tough part; waiting. Let us know how it turns out.
A cheese for you!
The cutter that I used to make the horizontal cuts is based on the design discussed here: https://cheesemakinghelp.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/making-horizontal-curd-cutter.html (https://cheesemakinghelp.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/making-horizontal-curd-cutter.html) and in replies 5 and 7 here: https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13102.msg101584.html#msg101584 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13102.msg101584.html#msg101584)
Mine seeks to improve on these designs in a a couple of ways. First, the materials in contact with the cheese are stainless steel. The vertical rod is 5/16" diameter, with grooves machined into it at precise 1" intervals--more about these in a minute. The thin horizontal rod is a piece of 3/32" stainless TIG welding rod. (I considered using 1/16" rod, but it seemed like it might not be quite stiff enough.) The horizontal rod fits through a hole drilled in the vertical rod; this fit is a loose sliding fit, so that the two can be assembled and disassembled easily. All of this allows the key pieces to be put in the dishwasher and to be sterilized in boiling water before use.
Second, the hub through which the vertical rod passes is machined to allow indexing of the rod for 1", 1/2", or 1/4" horizontal cuts as desired. This hub should be made out of stainless also, so that it too can be tossed in the dishwasher. Unfortunately, I do not yet have any stainless on hand of a suitable diameter, so I made this one out of mild steel; I will replace it down the road when I acquire the appropriate material. Another option would be to make this hub out of a food-grade plastic ... but again I don't have any of suitable size on hand. The hub is machined to 5/8" diameter over most of its length, with a flange of 1" diameter; there is a 5/16" diameter through this hub. The 5/8" diameter is cut with 4 slits, spaced 1/4" apart; the slits are deep enough to intersect the 5/16" hole by about 1/16" of an inch.
In use, this hub is set into a wooden cross piece sized to fit over the pot. There is a 3/8" diameter hole drilled through this cross piece, through which the 5/16" rod passes. There is also a 1" diameter hole counter sunk to accept the flange of the hub; the counter sunk is drilled to a depth that leaves the hub just sitting proud of the surface. As can be seen in the pictures, this allows the hub to be secured firmly to the crosspiece with three screws and washers, but also easily removed for cleaning.
The final key element of this design is the set of four hitch pins modified to fit on the hub so that the straight leg lies in one of the slits in the hub, and the bent side clicks in place on the round side of the hub. These hitch pins engage the grooves machined in the 5/16" diameter stainless vertical rod. Since the grooves are machined at 1" intervals, one can index the rod at 1" intervals by inserting one hitch pin into the hub. To get 1/2" indexing, insert two hitch pins in the 1st and 3rd (or 2nd and 4th) slit. To get 1/4" indexing, insert all four hitch pins.
To cut the curd, the cutter is assembled minus the hitch pins; the cross piece is set over the pot, and the cutter is let down through the curd until it hits bottom. The desired hitch pins are then inserted into place. The handle is used to sweep through 180˚; since the cutter extends to both sides, this will make a complete horizontal cut. The rod is then raised until a hitch pin clicks into place, indexing it and holding it so that the cutter can be swept through another 180˚. The rod is raised until the next hitch pin clicks into place, and the process is repeated. Even when indexing at 1/4" intervals, it takes very little time to complete all of the horizontal cuts.
I experimented with making the horizontal cuts first in my previous swiss make, and found that that does not work as well as making the vertical cuts first. The problem is that the weight of the curd tends to press it back together before the subsequent vertical cuts are made. By making the vertical cuts first, there is enough room, and enough whey starting to be released, to allow the cubes to move a bit when released by the horizontal cuts.
I mentioned that the make shown above was my third effort at a swiss style. My first effort was 8 months or so ago, and the results were surprisingly good. My second effort was a week ago, so it has just now finished the initial drying / ripening and has come out of the cave for some eye formation.
Oddly, even though both of these makes (#2 and #3) followed the same recipe, I got a rather different yield -- 2.85 lbs after brining for #3, but only 2.55 after brining for #2. And while that doesn't sound all that different, the difference in height is very noticeable. I am too green to know whether this reflects something I did differently in the make, or if it reflects differences in the milk (even though the same brand).
BTW, thanks, Anonymous, for the cheese! Yes, I am pleased with how the cutter is working. I was writing while you were posting. :)
Quote from: awakephd on November 17, 2014, 05:44:33 PM
I was writing while you were posting. :)
Disappointing, I thought you were on fire! ;) Haha!
Wow, just came to this, Awake. Indeed, beautiful looking curds, well done! Looking forward to hearing more of this. And a double-cheese day, another one for you for such a great cheese and beautiful chronicling.
Nice work Dr. You'll be teaching classes ;) before you know it. There is probably a rule for giving more than 2 cheeses in one day so I'll save one for the "cutting ceremony".
Thanks, John! :)
A cheese for you for lovely looking curds but also for your improvements to the cutter design. A nice piece of engineering. It is interesting to see the evolution of this design.
Thanks! John and I are conspiring on how to improve the design further ... stay tuned ...
Love the cutter---have to make one. Just a thought----have you tried a bevel below each slot---and then use a flat thin spring---like the sear in a firing mechanism in a fire arm.? You would just have to pull up as many notches as you wish and it would automatically snap in place. Might have to go with a little heavier main rod.
Qdog
Qdog, I am having trouble visualizing what you have in mind. Any chance you can point me to a picture of the firearm version you are thinking about?
I believe I have "contracted" my first case of B. linens. The Swiss-style I made a couple of weeks ago is on the left in the picture below, with the one I made a week later (and wrote up above) shown on the right. Not as obvious in the picture as it is in person, but the one on the left has a distinctly reddish/orange hue and has quite the "dirty socks" smell to it. I didn't really want the B. linens, but now that I have it, I look forward to seeing how it influences the final product!
Here's a quick drawing---not to scale----if you can't make it out let me know, I could email drawing.
The first drawing is the sear concept-----the second is the way I will go----so I don't have to make a bunch of bevel cuts on my antique lathe.
Qdog
Quote from: awakephd on November 23, 2014, 09:23:47 PM
I didn't really want the B. linens, but now that I have it, I look forward to seeing how it influences the final product!
Here's my prediction based on personal experience: you will love it and your wife will, well, want you to cut the rind off :). For most of my Alpine cheeses I intentionally do a BL wash. It prevents other surface molds from taking hold, kind of like Armour-All is to plastic (bad analogy, I know). I do love the flavor accents it adds but it will be a stinky to the unitiated.
Oh yes, my wife is already complaining about the smell. She actually doesn't like cheese, at all. Fortunately, after 27.5 years of marriage, we seem to be able to weather this basic incompatibility ... ! :)
Qdog, thanks for the picture -- I think I see what you have in mind. Some of the key goals that I am trying to achieve as I think about refining the design are 1) ease of use, including choice of curd size; 2) ease of cleaning -- ideally, every part that contacts food, even indirectly, can be tossed in the dishwasher; 3) ease of manufacturing; 4) cost -- partly a function of required materials, but even more a function of #3. My current design satisfies most of these very well; where it falls down a bit is in #1 -- it is easy to set up for the desired indexing, and the indexing is precise, but it is rather stiff to move it out of one index to the next.
It seems to me that your suggested design would have the advantage of being easy to move from position to position, and easy to release the rod to move it by pressing on the lever. A couple of disadvantages: all of the indexing would be in the rod (i.e., it would need to be grooved every 1/4"), and thus there would be no way to select a different indexing (e.g., 1/2" or 1") without either changing to a different rod or having to count (e.g., counting 4 indexes each time for 1" curds.) A bigger disadvantage, though, would be that this design would be a good bit more complicated to manufacture, and if it used a spring, a good bit harder to clean.
I had originally thought about, and experimented with, a different sort of spring-driven design, using a spring-loaded ball to engage the slots in the rod ... but my prototype did not perform very well, and it became obvious in the process that it would be a good bit of work to make, and a royal pain to clean. Then I thought of the current design -- much easier to make and to clean, but as I said, stiff to move out of one index to the next. I had been hoping,when I got time to experiment further, that I could fine-tune either the clips or the depth of the slots in the hub to get the tension just right, so that it is easier to slide from index to index while still being securely indexed.
However, one part of your suggested design might just be the key to improvement. Currently the indexing slots in the rod of my design are shaped something like this: \__/. I kept the slope on the sides relatively steep to ensure security of the indexing (particularly when I was thinking of engaging the slots with a spring-loaded ball), but that is a large part of what makes it stiff to pull out of one index to move to the next. But what if I cut the slots in the rod to the shape shown in your sketch -- something with a shallow slope on one side, but a 90˚ angle on the other side. That would make the rod able to index only in one direction, but it would be much easier to pull it up to the next index; meanwhile, the 90˚ side would provide a firm index, so long as one kept just a bit of downward pressure, which should happen naturally in the process of using it. I will definitely give this a try ...
Keep the ideas and suggestions coming -- maybe between all of us, we can come up with the perfect design!
Glad I could be of some help-----I also wanted to thank you for a key piece of info in your original post----it's frustrating that so many recipes call for so many curd sizes-----I had decided to eliminate the 3/8" size and stick to 1/4 and 1/2". I have horizontal cutters in s.s.wire but none seemed to work that well-----you mentioned that the curd seemed to weld back together, I seemed to have the same problem, because I always cut the horizontal first and I never thought about making the vertical cuts first----well that works much better!!! It's amazing how a simple solution can sometimes resolve a problem.
And those key goals are pretty much the way I see it, too----especially the clean up!!!
Qdog
Update: Opened this at a little over 4 months. (I'm holding the one I made the week before this one for longer aging -- maybe 6 months or so.)
As you can see, I got a lot of holes, mostly small. Flavor is quite good -- a bit tangy, though that is fading as it is out of the wax for a couple of days. Paste is firm, slices well, fairly but not fully flexible. I count this a success!
Hi Andy,
It looks very nice! :-) AC4U!
:-) Danbo
Very nice. Hopefully my next one turns out like that. Have a cheese from me also.
Shane
Congrats! CFU
Nice! In keeping with Stinky's effort to abbreviate rewarding forum members with a virtual cheese I will give you a +C :).
Quote from: John@PC on March 22, 2015, 11:47:08 PM
Nice! In keeping with Stinky's effort to abbreviate rewarding forum members with a virtual cheese I will give you a +C :).
:D I'm just trying to break from the usual.
Looks very nice Andy!! AC4U ;D
Looking great! AC4U!
What did you do to maintain the rind so clean despite the linens?
Quote from: amiriliano on March 23, 2015, 02:21:29 AM
What did you do to maintain the rind so clean despite the linens?
It looks like it was rubbed with oil, perhaps?
Quote from: awakephd on March 22, 2015, 08:21:40 PM
As you can see, I got a lot of holes, mostly small. Flavor is quite good -- a bit tangy, though that is fading as it is out of the wax for a couple of days. Paste is firm, slices well, fairly but not fully flexible. I count this a success!
I think above is the key.
Shane
Good job, Doc. AC4U
Qdog
Quote from: John@PC on March 22, 2015, 11:47:08 PM
Nice! In keeping with Stinky's effort to abbreviate rewarding forum members with a virtual cheese I will give you a +C :).
Well, that's better than a C+, I suppose. :)
Quote from: amiriliano on March 23, 2015, 02:21:29 AM
What did you do to maintain the rind so clean despite the linens?
This is actually the one that did not get linens -- I made two, one week apart, one of which got the linens. But with that one, I kept the moisture down a bit and the linens became dormant (or at least didn't increase); then, when the rinds were thoroughly dry, I waxed both. I haven't peeked at the linens-y one yet, but based on other experience with wax and molds/etc., I am expecting that it will come out of the wax pretty much the way it went in. We'll see if I'm right ... in another couple of months! :)
Hi!
Funny-this is my first post to the board-
I am a machinist that loves cheese.
A problem with multiple cutters would be the aggregate surface area when making the cut. The more cutting surfaces, the greater resistance to cutting, and increased likelihood that it will become a horizontal press. Taken to the extreme, how about just cutting with cloth? You already know you will just shove the curds around the container. They are strong enough to resist cutting when enough surfaces are being simultaneously cut.
I looked at a machined solution here, and it seems sensible, however the spring was offered as a possible cleaning roadblock. How about a "flat" spring instead, with a ball/detent on the vertical shaft? At least a flat piece of "spring" steel would be easier to clean. And I would skip a bronze bearing. We aren't looking for high RPM's or loading- the shaft just needs to go through without getting hung up when it's time to adjust. Probably just use a stainless sleeve. The entire assembly must be broken down for simple washing.
Any thoughts?
Cheers!
Stan
Quote from: gnarly on January 11, 2019, 07:45:09 PM
Hi!
Funny-this is my first post to the board-
I am a machinist that loves cheese.
A problem with multiple cutters would be the aggregate surface area when making the cut. The more cutting surfaces, the greater resistance to cutting, and increased likelihood that it will become a horizontal press. Taken to the extreme, how about just cutting with cloth? You already know you will just shove the curds around the container. They are strong enough to resist cutting when enough surfaces are being simultaneously cut.
I looked at a machined solution here, and it seems sensible, however the spring was offered as a possible cleaning roadblock. How about a "flat" spring instead, with a ball/detent on the vertical shaft? At least a flat piece of "spring" steel would be easier to clean. And I would skip a bronze bearing. We aren't looking for high RPM's or loading- the shaft just needs to go through without getting hung up when it's time to adjust. Probably just use a stainless sleeve. The entire assembly must be broken down for simple washing.
Any thoughts?
Cheers!
Stan
Hi Gnarly, and welcome to the forum. This is actually my first time reading and posting on the forum for just about a year - got too busy and didn't make much cheese at all during the last part of 2017 and most of 2018 - very sad. Fortunately I had enough "stock" in my cave to keep me going for a while, but it is mostly gone now. Now I'm trying to restock - still not making cheese as often as I did a few years ago, but getting something made every three weeks or so - in the last two months I've made a Double Gloucester, an Asiago, and a Danablu, as well as a couple of batches of camembert.
As for the design of the cutter - I've stayed with the basic design shown in the pictures of the first post. No springs (unless you count the hitch pins), and no bronze bearing; as you note, there is no need for such. I have converted everything over to stainless steel, including the hitch pins. (Couldn't find stainless hitch pins at a price I wanted to pay, so I simply bent some up out of TIG welding rods.) I've also dispensed with the screws that held the hub in place on the wooden cross piece - the fit of the hub in the cross piece is tight enough, and the load is so low, that no screws are needed. Thus, everything other than the wood cross piece can go in the dishwasher.
As a machinist, you might enjoy the thread describing my compound lever press shown in my avatar: https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14493.0.html. (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14493.0.html.) The plans are included, but easy to miss - look for a link to a .pdf file just after the pictures in the first post. Updates and additions to the design are included in later posts in the thread. Further down you'll also see a modified design that can be built entirely from wood (it doesn't use the screw).