Has anyone ever found a recipe for this?
It's a washed rind brie-like cheese - but washed with what?
Can we all hack the recipe together? >:D
I believe it's washed with brandy after the candidum matures. But it's brined and washed with brine until the candidum blooms. You might want to check with Alpkäserei (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8867) as it comes from both Switzerland and France. Pretty sure you could get the wood containers to age it in. I think I may have some already.
Here is a photo of my holiday treat - Hauser's Vacherin Mont d'Or.
Save that box Jim!!! LOL
So is it basically a cam aged until soft? Daily washes?
I lived in Lausanne a number of years ago, and fell in love with this cheese. I don't have enough cheese making experience to comment how to make it. I do, however, respect those who make it well.
Here's an interesting video in French. There's is a bunch of videos on Youtube, but none of them seemed to show the cheese being washed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBsubCAc8ts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBsubCAc8ts)
Do a search on this site and you will find a thread with a ton of links discussing this cheese. Here's one... https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,8010.msg55988.html#msg55988 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,8010.msg55988.html#msg55988)
This video shows the washing. Apparently just the top and bottom. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hJlA53NhNU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hJlA53NhNU) This one shows the brining and washing. I don't speak french but suspect you could get a lot more info from this is you did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQy60zrmp7M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQy60zrmp7M) Basically I've come to the conclusion that this is a baby brie with a touch of geo that is pressed, brined, and washed top and bottom. The spruce bark appears key to the flavor and is going to be the hard part. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQy60zrmp7M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQy60zrmp7M)
The effect of the spruce bark is to mitigate the sharp flavor of the cheese. Thus, as they say, the bark is worse than the bite.
:)
Wonder if a touch of sharp lipase would be a suitable substitute.
Funny.
It's amazing how there doesn't seem to be any clear information anywhere...
Just to clarify -- I was making a joke about the spruce bark, not imparting actual knowledge. I got to thinking that someone might just stumble across that, miss the joke, and perpetuate a new cheese-making myth ... :)
Quote from: Al Lewis on January 17, 2015, 08:08:50 PM
The spruce bark appears key to the flavor and is going to be the hard part. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQy60zrmp7M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQy60zrmp7M)
Hard part as in sourcing?
http://artisangeek.com/spruce-bark-straps-12-pack/ (http://artisangeek.com/spruce-bark-straps-12-pack/)
Larry
Cool. Now we can spruce up our cheeses ...
^-^
I did an internet search for these and didn't get a single hit. They need to put some more keywords in their profile. LOL Just placed an order.
I've come up with an approximation of what I think this cheese might be, recipe wise. As soon as my bark arrives, and I get the time, I'm going to try and make a batch of three. Need to get some info on "winter milk" from some of our dairy owners so I have the right milk. I can use raw milk but want to make sure that the fat content at our high winter temps are the same as those in the alps.
Wow. Do you mind sharing?
My understanding is the "winter milk" comes from straw-fed cows as opposed to pastured cows. You can see that in one of the videos. Not sure what the impact is on the fatty content.
When I get around to the make I'll post it along with the results. We'll see what I come up with. :o It should be pretty much the same as a Winnimere or Harbison. More so the Winnimere.
Guess what showed up today!!! ???
So are you making cheese tomorrow? :)
Larry
Don't know if I'll have time. :(
Wow!
I can't wait to hear about this make.
Currently reading about Vacehrin - I'll post here in a little while about it.
Just doing a Vacherin Fribourgeois with a twist. Hopefully it will end up being close to a Vacherin Mont D'Or. We'll see. Went with the french version using raw milk, I have an excellent local supplier, and some added cream. I used the recipe from 200 Easy Homemade Cheese recipes, page 239, and added 3/8 teaspoon of PC and 1/32 tsp of Geo to it. I have no idea if this is correct for the Mont D'Or but in every video I watched the cheeses appeared to have pc on the sides.
Well I finally got to use that Mad Millies press I bought back when I first tried cheese making. LOL I used 20 pounds of pressure, per the scale on the press, for 30 minutes. I loaded the press, or at least tried to, with enough curd to make 2 wheels. Once out of the press I sliced it in half, to make the two wheels, and then pressed a 5.12" diameter mold over each half to make them uniform. Problem, and I knew this would happen in advance, the spruce bark sold by the artisan geek is 12" in length. Well pi times 5.12 isn't 12". I used rubber bands to hold the bark on, saw this being done in the videos as well, and it worked out well. Had the bark waiting in a steeping pan of hot water on the stove.
After brining for 12 hours the shapes basically went from round to teardrop shape. If the bark had been long enough to overlap I don't believe this would have happened. I would recommend that you start with the rubber band and then tie a piece of butchers cord around each one. Without the elasticity of the rubber band they should stay round. I placed them out at room temperature for drying for 24 hours and that's where I am right now, halfway through the drying process. Flipped them over and covered with a layer of cheese cloth of protection. Next they go into the cave for a week, flipping and drying daily, then the brine washing begins every second day. Should be interesting. :o
Note: If I had been more careful in my measurement of the curd, when pressing, I would have gotten 6 wheels. As it is I have 3 the right thickness and two rather thick ones. Oh, BTW, they puff when ya brine 'em!! LOL
Hey AL that's pretty interesting looking, I can't wait to see how this turns out for you
Should be interesting!! Watching with great interest, believe me. LOL :o
Interesting... :-)
Okay guys, they're in the cave for a week before starting the brine wash.
They just look so nice. I'm looking forward to watch them as they age. I hope that you share some pictures...
I have to give you a cheese for making these special cheeses!
:-) Danbo
Thanks for the cheese buddy!! They seemed like a cool project to take on. You can't find a recipe for them anywhere so I'm making a LOT of assumptions but I think I'll end up with some good cheese regardless. Always like a challenge. ;D Raclette anyone?? LOL
Did the morning flip, nothing really to dry. My cave is right about 80-85 RH and that's where I like to keep it. No change in anything but I really don't expect to see anything for at least 5 days. Then I may see some PC growth. This pic shows the teardrop shape I ended up with. I should still be able to box them when the time comes as they should soften up. Besides, they aren't really supposed to fit in the box. You're supposed to force them in, really. Watch... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hJlA53NhNU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hJlA53NhNU)
Found an interesting video showing a lady brushing, what appears to be, either Chardonnay or clarified butter on the tops of the cheeses prior to final boxing. Butter would make sense as it should seal the top however, a wine based brine may stop the mold process also. Anyone have any ideas on this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E9_pSkDWKg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E9_pSkDWKg)
Quote from: Al Lewis on February 01, 2015, 04:26:00 PM
You're supposed to force them in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hJlA53NhNU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hJlA53NhNU)
Aha! That's why the top is always buckled!
Yep, they cut them and then force them into the box which is smaller than the cheese. Don't expect these things to do anything for a week. I'll post any changes as they occur.
Flipped these tonight and found that the PC is starting to grow top and bottom. May have to start the brine wash early although I suspect the idea is to wash the PC after growth to create the gray surface.
Exciting to follow...
Another cheese for ya. Those look amazing. I hope you can post all the details when you're done...
I'm attaching a scan about Mont D'Or from Rance's book. As usual, he's quite the character when writing. What I don't see is any mention of washing with spirits etc...
No, apparently they are just washed with an 18% brine.
You're thinking a wash on a daily basis?
They are washed every other day.
These seem to be coming along nicely. Washing starts on Saturday.
Very nice! :-)
Received their first wash today. This will continue every other day.
It's really fun to follow. :-)
Well this is pretty much the regimen for the next three months. :-\
I'm sure that it will be well worth the effort. :-)
Doing a 3 pound Tallegio today so I have two things to tend. LOL ^-^
Yummy - Tallegio. Love it! :-)
Here's a shot of the last one I did. It was delicious!!
My mouthwater level sensor just went crazy.....
Good lord that looks good! Ac4u
Thank you!!!
Well today they got flipped and the underside washed. The thing I noticed about the washing cycle on the videos of this cheese make is that they flip them and then just wash the underside. So each side actually gets washed every four days. I use the paint brush to apply the brine wash to the surface. I purchased, and sanitized, a small, natural bristle, hand and nail brush to actually brush the tops. Note the buildup of the PC around the sides. I expect this will engulf the spruce bark before these are ripe.
Nice! :-)
Are they softening?
No, that will take at least 12 weeks.
Flipped and washed these again tonight. The PC grows very well in the time between flipping. When I flipped them the bottoms were completely covered in PC which washed off with the brine brushing. The bark is beginning to be covered by the PC as well. In short, so far, so good!! ;D
They already look delicious! :-)
I'll take 3. Thank you :D
wow!! those are lookin GREAT Al :)
waiting for the taste report not that I have any patients for the wate ;D
Yeah, these are going to take a while. Can't shorten it either as they have to be soft and that won't happen for a while.
Mm, those look scrumptious.
We'll see what they're like when they're done. Just shooting in the dark here. LOL
Oh my. With your new revolver? ;)
No, with this make. LOL
As long as you don't shoot the cheese. You know, it's rather hard to aim in the dark. But I understand.
And just how do you think they get those holes in Emmentaler??? :o
Quote from: Al Lewis on February 13, 2015, 01:26:51 AM
And just how do you think they get those holes in Emmentaler??? :o
I thought those were remote-operated explosive devices.
Well now you know. It was me all the time.
http://www.aop-igp.ch/_upl/files/VMO_Pflichtenheft_14.pdf (http://www.aop-igp.ch/_upl/files/VMO_Pflichtenheft_14.pdf)
If you can read German, here is the standard for how Vacherin Mont-d'Or AOP is made in Switzerland, in order to be called that.
SO all I get from this is, the milk is pasteurized first, and then after renneting and setting it is cut to grains the size of a cherry.
Then it is heated to a temperature between 32 and 38 C
Put into forms between 10 and 33 cm dia. and lightly pressed
after you take it out of the form, the cheese is wrapped in a piece of spruce bark which you can hold together with a rubber band
you put the bark into water at least 90 C for at least 30 minutes before wrapping around the cheese
after it is wrapped you put it in a brine for 2 to 4 hours
then it is washed, aged 17 to 25 days between 9 and 16 C 85% RH
This cheese is made in the winter, and can only be sold from september through April
So the young cheese is put in the cave, and you turn it every day until stuff starts to grow. Then it is simply washed with salt water.
When it is done, you take the bark off and stuff the thing into a round box that is slightly smaller than your cheese. then you wash the rind off once more.
after its in the box, keep it refrigerated
Sounds like my make Alp however I added PC and a tiny bit of Geo for the "stuff". ???
Here's what I got...
Art. 1 Name and protection
Vacherin Mont-d'Or, protected designation of origin (PDO)
Art. 2 Geographical area
The geographical area of the Vacherin Mont-d'Or includes:
a. the districts Vallée de Joux, Orbe, Grandson, Aubonne, Cossonay and Morges, except the municipalities Ecublens, Bussigny, Préverenges, Echandens, Chavannes / Renens, Villars-Ste-Croix, St-Sulpice and Denges.
b. the communities Orges and Vugelles la Mothe District Yverdon
c. the Alps of communities basins, Le Vaud, Arzier and St-Cergue and
d. the French and Swiss Alps Le chalet is brûlé, La Gaique, La vieille Landeau, Le Pre Loin, La Petite-Landeau, Landeau neuve, Les mauves, Les Lezinettes, La Brûlée and Le Patzard.section 2
Art. 3
Form, appearance:
Height: strapping:
Description of product
physical properties
Round shape, washed, slightly wavy and soft bark of amber yellow to red-brown color.
3-5 cm
The cheese is made with a tire Fichtenbast from the geographical areas enclosed territory to arise.
Vacherin Mont-d'Or is available in four sizes: 10 to 12 cm; 350 to 500 g.
12 to 20 cm; 500 g to 1.2 kg.
Register of designations of origin and geographical indications Mattenhofstrasse 5, 3003 Bern
Tel. +41 58 462 25 11 + 41 58 463 27 63, fax +41 58 462 26 34 www.blw.admin.ch (http://www.blw.admin.ch)
Diameter, weight: Small:
means:
Specifications for Vacherin Mont-d'Or (PDO)
Gross: Half loaf:
Art 4.
20 till 32 cm; 1.2 to 3 kg.
260-350 g chemical properties.
Water content:
Water content in the defatted cheese: Fat:
Salinity:
500-575 g / kg
at least 650g / kg
490-549 g / kg dry weight 10 to 20 g / kg
Art. 5
Texture: Taste:
box:
section 3
A. production
Art. 6
organoleptic characteristics
The dough is soft, supple, easy flow of ivory and yellow.
The taste is slightly salty and slightly sour. It is characterized by a wood and pine resin flavor, which originates from the tire and the box.
From spruce, the lid 5 mm and the soil must be less than 6 mm thick. The height and thickness of the edges, no more than 6 cm and 1.5 mm betra- conditions. The wood used to make the box comes from the geographical area.
Description of the preparation method
General requirements for milk production
The farms whose milk is processed into Vacherin Mont-d'Or, the require- must
meet obstacles of integrated production or organic farming.
Art. 7 Feeding
1 The farms that produce milk for the production of Vacherin Mont-d'Or, have the animal feeding detailed rules with Siloverbot observed.
2 At least 70% in dry matter (DM) calculated rations for dairy cattle must come from the company's own fodder base.
3 urea, urea-containing products and feed adversely affect the taste and smell of the milk in particular leeks, cabbage, radish and turnips are prohibited.
4 green fodder must be clean and freshly harvested retracted into the operation. Before the feeding of the animals must not be heated. It is to consume at least during a period of two milkings after the cut. The mangers must be cleaned of waste before new green fodder is added.
5 farms that supplied 1998 silage for the production of Vacherin Mont-d'Or before 5 October to continue this practice until 30 April 2013 under the following cumulative conditions to be fulfilled:
Register of designations of origin and geographical indications
2/7
Specifications for Vacherin Mont-d'Or (PDO)
a. It may only be used corn silage good quality;
b. the pH value must be less than 4.5 and the cut must be free of mold 10 cm below the average. These two criteria are checked once a month;
c. butyric spore content is checked twice per season;
d. the cost of the controls by the letters a to c shall be borne by the producers who benefit from this exemption.
6 The provisions of paragraph 1 shall apply only to dairy cows in the period of production of Vacherin Mont-d'Or and shall apply subject to the following conditions:
Art. 8
a.
b.
The feeding of silage to dairy cows is allowed if the milk is not intended for the production of Vacherin Mont-d'Or. Get in operation in the production of milk for the production of Vacherin Mont-d'Or or carry it on again, the Silagefütte- tion is ten days before the delivery of milk to the cheese factory set at the latest.
When feeding silage other than lactating animals, the provisions of Regulation 3 of 23 November 2005 on the hygiene of milk production are from 1 May 2013, Annex 2, Section observed (SR 916.351.021.1).
Delivery of milk to the dairies
The milk is to deliver two times a day immediately after milking to the dairy. A one delivery per day is exceptionally allowed at producers:
a. before 5 October 1998 delivered once a day and whose milk has been processed into Vacherin Mont-d'Or.
b. Do not transport their milk for more than 1 1/2 hours and stored at a temperature between 4 and 14 ° C.
Art. 9 catchment area of the cheese
The milk collection must be made within a radius of more than 25 km air-line, so that the milk
can be delivered and collected under the best possible conditions.
B. Preparation of Vacherin Mont d'Art. 10 production period
1 The production is seasonal and is limited to the period from 15 August to 31 March. A month before the start of production determines the Applicants grouping the final date of the first fixed fabrications.
2 Outside the production period, the producer and refiner may produce no similar cheese, which is spanned with a tire from Fichtenbast and sold in a pine box.
I cheated. LOL Didn't get anymore than you. LOL Thanks for you help though. Always appreciated!! ;)
What it does not contain is information about temperature to add rennet and how long to set the curd
But do not make the mistake of thinking the two Vacherin cheeses are related. They are not. They are totally different. So you can't carry things from Vacherin Friboureois to Mont-d'Or because they are not alike.
I'd guess the rennet situation is a lot like similar Fench-style cheeses but I don't know about soft cheeses.
But one thing I do see that you did wrong was aged it too long. 25 days is the maximum!
So from this I gather that it should be coagulated a very long time, so that it starts off very soft.
So it is a close relative to Camembert, Tomme, and Reblochon and also Münster.
So for a future recipe, we can try and take a cheese like mentioned here, and adapt it to suit. So with that guess, I think a coagulation time of somewhere around an hour is what we are looking for.
So off the top of my head, here is what I gather is done for Swiss Mont-d'Or
The milk is pasteurized and then cooled.
You culture it and let that sit and work for a while
add rennet and coagulate somewhere around an hour, or floc 5 to 6 or so
cut to cherry sized curds and gently warm it up as high as 38 C (we started probably at 30 C)
scoop the curd into the form and very lightly press
Brine 2 to 4 hours
wrap in bark
stick it in the cave and turn it every day, washing the new top each time.
after 17 to 25 days, take the bark off, and stick it in a new container.
eat it.
These are only two weeks old. The friboureois recipe I hacked called for aging 3-4 months. Hoping I can ripen these way faster than that. I'll give them two more weeks and see if they soften up for me. Also, all of the videos I've watched they box the cheese with the bark still on. With regards to your make notes I did allow the rennet to coagulate for one hour then cut the curds and heat them to 38° C over a 35 minute period. After a light press, 20 lbs for 30 minutes, I wrapped them in their bark and brined them for 12 hours in a 18% brine. Then dried at room temperature for 24 hours and into the cave. Here's how they looked this morning both before and after washing. The PC growth constantly comes back. As of this morning they show no signs of softening.
I hope that you won't have to wait that long... They still look great! :-)
Okay I had a Stilton blue on the bottom shelf, wrapped in butter muslin, and these two shelves up so I made a batch of three cambozolas yesterday to put on the shelf between them. They can benefit from the PC and the PR! LOL ;D Life is good!! Cleaning up this morning and threw my back totally out so I'm sitting typing this waiting for the meds to work. Not the best of mornings.
Vacherin Friboureois is an alpine style cheese, classified as a
'Halbhart' cheese in Switzerland, or semi-hard. It's aged about 7 times longer than Mont-D'Or
Mont-D'Or is a 'Weichkäse' or soft cheese. It's not really even similar to Friboureois in how it is made.
So basically hacking a Freiberg recipe for Mont d'Or is the wrong way around. Instead we should work from a recipe that's actually a related cheese.
So heating over a period of 30 minutes is going to dry your curd out, and give you a half hard cheese instead of a soft cheese. Remember that after the curd is cut, the moisture is being expelled constantly until it is hooped and pressed.
So for Mont d'Or, we actually want to get the curd out pretty soon after it is cut, I would guess.
But a disclaimer, this is all based not on a knowledge of soft cheeses, but on a knowledge of how moisture in the curd works with rennet.
You probably also want to shoot for the lower end of the temperature range, really.
I would guess the purpose of heating here is to help the curd knit. Where as in an alpine we heat so the cheese will last longer.
Yes, I think the next batch will be done totally different and lean more towards a brie recipe with a light pressing. I investigated everything I could find on the subject prior to doing the make, which isn't very much. It's okay though as I have plenty of bark left so I may age this one out and do another when I have room in the cave and can move. ;D Mistakes are just life's learning process. I'm learning a lot these days!! LOL
There is more information to be found, if you know German and know your way around the Swiss cheese world. So since I do, I thought I would try and help.
So you are on the right path now I Think, if you base a recipe on a Brie, Camembert, or Reblochon
Thank you very much. As always your help is very much appreciated. I can translate the written things I find from any language but the videos, and that's pretty much all there is for this cheese, are a mystery to me. I try to emulate what I see but, as they say, the devil is in the details.I'm sure whatever I made will be edible though and the next batch will be closer to what I am looking for. AC4U for your help and Thanks again!! ;)
Thanks for that input Alpkasieri. I had a feeling vacherin is more of a cam-like product. But kudos to Al for this amazing effort!
It's going to be good cheese anyway - maybe a new invention... ;-)
I'm sure the next will be closer to what I am trying to achieve. We'll get there. ;D
Well... My Big Blue could also have been a little more as planned: https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13812.msg106418.html#msg106418 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13812.msg106418.html#msg106418)
:-) Danbo
I stuck to my plan. Problem was it was the wrong plan. LOL
;)
Well I managed to waddle, with crutches, down to the cheese cave so I could tend my cheeses. Got these flipped and washed. I'm thinking that, at some point, the PC will soften these from the sides if nowhere else. We'll see!! Maybe little cheese gremlins will pop out at 12 weeks. LOL I would like to start over but with the cambozolas I did for the wife this weekend I don't have any more room for soft cheeses.
Nice cave shot! :-)
Thanks Danbo. The most important accessory to this cave is the three cases of Bud Light on the side. LOL Bought this back when I started cheese making from Best Buy. Added the external temp control and a thermometer/hygrometer to convert it over. I find it hold way more cheese than I can consume. Until my friends find out I'm making cheese again. Then it gets empty pretty quick. Here's a shot from when I first started.
It's fun to see your cheese temple now and before. :-)
What's the one that's third from the bottom?
That was a brie with shitake mushrooms that Tiarella (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8979) came up with. Looked good so I made one. You can see her make here (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10578.0.html). Kathrin is one of the more creative and talented folks on here. Always a pleasure to see what she's up to with her leaves and bark. ???
What's the fridge model?
It's an Igloo upright freezer. You can see it here (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/igloo-6-9-cu-ft-upright-freezer-white/5143028.p?id=1219120223522&skuId=5143028). I used a Johnson Controls analog temperature controller. Drilled a hole through the bottom rear of the cabinet and ran the temperature probe through that. Sealed the hole with silicone and attached the probe to the center shelf with tie-wraps.
I never considered a freezer. Was worried about frost.
I use these controls on a wine fridge. No need for drilling. Works great but probe has a 1-2 year life span.
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37&products_id=377 (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37&products_id=377)
Not going to get any frost at 54° F. The unit maintains it's own RH at 85% due to the weather conditions prevalent in this area. :D
Thought I'd share a couple of before and after pics of these during the brushing and flipping this morning. The PC just keeps coming back. And that's growth between the cheese and the glass shelf it's on. I've noticed that some of the coloring from the bark is leaching its way into the cheese. I think that's a good sign. :o
Looks really good! :-)
Thanks Danbo. Still not softening though. Got a long time to go. LOL
Same with my bries. Unfortunately I had some problems with my make. The flocculation took forever and instead of using a floc.factor of 6, I landed on around 3. That made them too hard, but let's see if they soften. If not, I think that I will make deep fried Camemberts out of them - delicious...
Yeah, I don't mess with the floc and PH things. Call me silly but I believe the monks and folks in the 1500s didn't either. I can see they have their place, especially for quality control, but I just time mine and they come out right every time. Might buy a PH meter one day just for curiosity though. ???
I learn a lot from it. Especially I find it useful during pressing.
I'm sure it would help me also. Just haven't bothered with it. Still supplying myself with everything else that goes with this hobby. LOL
Loooove gadgets! ;-)
Me too!!!
They look excellent Al
I haven't ventured into the ph realm yet either,
I don't feel that I need or I want a meter. Just an added expense I don't need.
I do love my toys when it comes to my camera and other things that I play with (aka computer's, stereo,
shop tools etc, I'll end it here ^-^)
Yep, I checked out the meter I was thinking of buying. It was $110.00 which really isn't that much but when I thought about what I would gain with it it really wasn't a priority. If all of my cheeses were failing then I wold say yes but they have all been edible so far. Just can't get those damn holes in that emmentaler. LOL :-\
Al: A 10 milimeter drill does wonders... ;-)
Quote from: Danbo on February 20, 2015, 06:26:41 PM
Al: A 10 milimeter drill does wonders... ;-)
LOL
Funniest part about everyone complaining they can't get the holes is that the holes are considered a defect in Switzerland so they are trying to get rid of them and we are breaking our necks to get them.
Noticed some slight softening of the two smallest of these today. Getting interesting. ???
That's exciting... How long until they should be ready?
About two more months. LOL
Patience! ;-)
Oh, I'm going no where near these until they are ripe. LOL Would be happy to be over with them though so I can get on with a corrected recipe. ;D Still dying to see how these taste.
Quote from: Al Lewis on February 20, 2015, 06:20:02 PM
Yep, I checked out the meter I was thinking of buying. It was $110.00 which really isn't that much but when I thought about what I would gain with it it really wasn't a priority. If all of my cheeses were failing then I wold say yes but they have all been edible so far. Just can't get those damn holes in that emmentaler. LOL :-\
Which, I'm thinking, may actually be due to pH.
Off topic: My Extech PH-100 is not working correctly anymore. It just keep fluctuating. It is cleaned and maintained so I guess I have to talk to Extech about a replacement... It worked fine until today...
Bummer!! Someone said their customer service was great. Hope they make it good for you buddy.
Flipped these this morning and the thinner ones are getting noticeably soft. ;D
Great!! :-)
What is the normal ageing time for them Al??
That seems to be a matter for discussion. LOL The recipe I hacked calls for 12 weeks but I'm not making that cheese so these could be anytime. I have one that is really soft on one side that I may heat up and try just to see where I'm at with this.
Well one of the smaller of the cheeses felt soft today when I tended my cheeses so I decided to box it up. I won't taste this until tomorrow but from first looks and feel I would say the paste is just right. Skin crumbled like a light pastry. Smell is great. BTW I found out why they box them with the bark on, you can't get it off. I may have actually hacked this thing. ;D
Found the reason you couldn't get it out - it's cut to get it in the container
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hJlA53NhNU&list=PL5EEC807631B62831&index=3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hJlA53NhNU&list=PL5EEC807631B62831&index=3)
and washing - with what and what stage - I can't read or understand French
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7YQLcs48F4&index=8&list=PL5EEC807631B62831 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7YQLcs48F4&index=8&list=PL5EEC807631B62831)
-- Mal
Yep me again - - being 'Captain Obvious' - sorry you all found what I just did - doh !! :o
Al: Soooo nice! :-) Can't wait to hear how the taste and look like inside...
I can tell you, from putting it into the box, that this one is a soft paste throughout. I'll have to wait to get home to address the taste issue. Looking forward to it though.
Me too! :-)
Just read this thread through, and what a great looking cheese! A cheese to you. Looking forward to the taste report.
- Jeff
Came home and warmed this thing up, 1 minute in the microwave. Got some crackers and went at it. The taste is warm and woodsy with a touch of a tang that is smoothed over by a creamy, rather bold, taste of mushrooms that takes the edge off of the tang. Don't know if it's a Vacherin Mont D'Or but it's damn good!! Once this one is finished off I'l try again using Alps suggestions. It could have spent a few more days in the cave to fully develop the paste as the very center still hadn't fully emulsified but it was delicious none the less.
Mm, sounds nice! Take a cheese for your science.
WOW, Al!
It seems thatt your hard work really paid off.
You are inspiring all us fellow cheese heads to try something new and different.
Great work deserves a cheese!
:-) Danbo
Nice one Al
AC4U it looks excellent ;D
Thanks guys! Still not sure if I made what I stated out to make. I tried to go on-line and order one last night but couldn't find any. I am still going to try the other option once this one is cleared out of my cave. :D
Al !! What a cracker of a cheese - why the heck would you want to mail order a cheese when you make something that is far far far superior ??? An Artisan is born - this is what we all aspire to.
Very well done :) and A Cheese !!
-- Mal
I just wanted to see what the real one taste like so I can see if I actually hacked the recipe. This one tastes great but I have nothing to compare it to. LOL
Al: Yours is much more "real". ;-)
Looks delicious. Excellent work! I think you've 90% hacked it I would say ?? ;D
I think this cheese is good but I still have to try the modified brie recipe. I think I've found the secret to these things.
I agree. Would you mind summarizing it in one recipe?
The secret, if there is one, is when you flip them over and wash the top make sure you leave a good layer of the brine on the cheese. You want a nice thick film of it to soak into the cheese. I used the recipe from 200 Easy Homemade Cheese recipes, page 239, changing it for 3 gallons of milk with 3 pints of heavy cream and adding 3/8 teaspoon of PC and 1/32 tsp of Geo to it. I also wrapped them in the spruce bark which the recipe does not call for. For 3 gallons of milk and 3 pints of heavy cream I used 1/4 tsp meso culture, 3/8 tsp calcium chloride in water, 1/2 tsp vegetable rennet (1/2 tablet) dissolved in water, 3/8 tsp penicillium candidum, and 1/32 tsp of geotrichum. Procedure was the standard "bring the milk to 86° F and add cultures wait 15 minutes and add calcium chloride, wait 15 minutes and add rennet, wait 50 minutes and check for clean break. Use a large which to cut the curd to pea size pieces, let stand for 10 minutes. Slowly warm curd to 100° F while stirring continuously for 35 minutes. Hold for 10 minutes while curds settle. Pour contents into cheese cloth lined colander and drain. divide curd into 6 equal segments and put into prepared mold, 1 segment at a time, and press with 20 pounds of weight for 30 minutes, flip over and press for a further 30 minutes. Wrap with the prepared spruce bark (keep in a pan of steeping hot water prior to use to make soft). Brine in 18% saturated brine for 12 hours turning over after 6 hours. Dry at room temperature and place in cave, flipping every 12 hours for one week. After one week flip and wash the top side of the cheese with brine solution leaving a good layer of brine on the surface every other day. Continue until the cheeses soften. Once soft box and place in fridge until use. Not sure if this makes vacherin Mont D'Or but it's what I did. I'll be doing a different version soon. Tip, I keep these on a glass cutting board as the PC tends to grow quite a bit on the down side and wold easily attach itself to a mat. I used 5.1" diameter camembert molds which give you a cheese a little thicker than the spruce bark. About 2 inches thick.
Flipped and brined today. The one on the bottom right is just about ready to eat. Note the slight difference in color. They are softening in the order of their thickness with the thinnest ones ripening first. Another good reason to make sure they are uniform when you mold them.
AC4U - this is has been a great expose.
--Mal
Quote from: Al Lewis on February 28, 2015, 11:38:29 PM
Flipped and brined today. The one on the bottom right is just about ready to eat. Note the slight difference in color. They are softening in the order of their thickness with the thinnest ones ripening first. Another good reason to make sure they are uniform when you mold them.
So, your namesake who traveled west about 1804 with a guy named Clark had nothing on you! Take a cheese, Merriweather! ;D
Thanks for the accolades my friends but, I'm still not sure I made what I started out to make. LOL
No matter what, you made some cheeses that we all can envy! :-) Have a cheese...
That's for sure... Cheddars and Caerphilly's are the mainstay this - is edible art..
8)
Quote from: Al Lewis on March 01, 2015, 06:21:43 AM
Thanks for the accolades my friends but, I'm still not sure I made what I started out to make. LOL
That's ok Al. As Shakespeare wrote, "A
rose cheese by any other name would smell as sweet". One more cheese for a master hacker.
Quote from: Al Lewis on March 01, 2015, 06:21:43 AM
Thanks for the accolades my friends but, I'm still not sure I made what I started out to make. LOL
Perception often trumps reality! >:D
Well, whatever I made, it's delicious!! :P I would recommend this one, whatever it is, to anyone that likes raclettes. Not the cheese, the style.
I thought whatever this was was supposed to be gooey. >:D
Really nice! AC4U.
Larry
It was, all the way through lunch! LOL Split the top open and added about 2 tablespoons of white wine and heated in the convection oven for about 10 minutes at 325° F. Stir it up and start spooning!! :P
Makes me want to take the next plane and steal your cheeses! ;-)
Better hurry, they're going fast!! LOL :P
That cheese pot pie looks like a meal on its own! AC4U.
Received an e-mail ad last night highlighting this (http://www.thecheesemaker.com/content/washed_rind_cheese_using_spruce_bark_straps.pdf). Coincidence? I think not!! LOL
me to Al, I had to chuckle when I saw it LOL.
Yeah, it sure seemed like strange timing to me. LOL
AOC, POC , Patent it or whatever you call it Al.... Claim your place in the annals of cheese history. It's only me but I dislike those who ride on the success of others without duly recognising their effort. And no I don't pirate movies or software.. I've spent enough of my career writing stuff to be a little miffed when it happens to friends or myself. You took an idea and adapted it - nay perfected it - and for someone to claim it as their work really pisses (sorry if that's a little strong) me off. I know we can't really own an idea and heaven knows my bloomy white bear a huge resemblance to a popular French cheese, but the instructions are too close to yours for someone to accidentally 'Discover' a new cheese - not without work themselves.
-- Mal
I'm sure it was only a coincidence, wink wink, but I know what you mean. When I served as the Historian for the 366th Composite Wing Tom Clancy wrote his book about us called Air Force Wing and used a historical revue I had written about the wing titled 366th Wing, From Richmond to Mountain Home. He blantantly plaguized my book and never gave me credit in his. If I had the money at the time I would have sued him.
I must be missing something here. Who writes the "Cheesemaker" recipes?
As I understand it, someone emailed Al an ad containing, basically, the recipe he used.
Quote from: amiriliano on March 19, 2015, 02:45:16 AM
I must be missing something here. Who writes the "Cheesemaker" recipes?
I have no idea. As I said, I'm sure it was a pure coincedence but I received an e-mail ad from the cheesemaker web site with a large ad on it advertising this great bark wrapped cheese. The recipe appeared to be the same one I used to make this Vacherin but also had steps for washing with beer or brine. I thought it was funny so I posted it. I have no idea where Steve gets his recipes.
OK. I was going to take your experiment and sort of organize it into a concise recipe that can be further hacked by people here. Would that be ok with you?
Sure, that's why I put it on here. ;D
Al: A cheese for you because you share! Good karma! :-)
Thanks Danbo! I was under the impression that that was what this site was for. ;)
Thank you for all the effort. Will do it soon.
It is Al - You're a good soul. O0 Credit where credit is due however 8).
-- Mal
Just serving one up for Easter. :P
I tried to dip a cracker in that pic on my computer screen. Looks extremely good!
It was much better after I stirred the white wine into it. :P
Can almost taste it! :-) That deserves a cheese...
Thanks guys. You really should try this. It is a very delicious cheese. ;D
That's a nice looking cheese Al, I wonder if the spruce bark is available out here? ac4u
As for the recipe on the other site, I am amazed that he didn't even bother formatting/punctuating it so that it reads easier.
I wonder where he borrowed his other recipes from?
LOL I'm sure it was just a strange coincidence but if not, he could have asked and I would have given him a good version for his use. ;) Thanks for the cheese!
Either way we all know it is Al's cheese...
--Mal
Hi all -
So as promised, I'm going to try to to put together this recipe for VMD which is heavily (almost completely) taken from Al Lewis' great work and then sprinkled with some other sources (including Alpkaserei's input and link to the German standards of VMD page). Please help me edit it/ correct it so that we can together come up with a great Vacherin-style recipe. Let me know what needs to be added/removed/changed and then we'll have our hack.
Standards Of VMD (from Alpkaserei's link) Specifications for Vacherin Mont-d'Or (PDO) (provided by Alpkaserei http://www.aop-igp.ch/_upl/files/VMO_Pflichtenheft_14.pdf (http://www.aop-igp.ch/_upl/files/VMO_Pflichtenheft_14.pdf))
Gross: 20 to 32 cm
Chemical PropertiesWater content: 500-575 g / kg
Water content in the de-fatted cheese: at least 650g / kg
Fat: 490-549 g / kg dry matter
Salinity: 10 to 20 g / kg
Special equipment: Spruce bark straps (http://artisangeek.com/spruce-bark-straps/ (http://artisangeek.com/spruce-bark-straps/)). I don't know if there are other sources to get these.
Begin with Camembert recipe to make wheels (traditionally Vacherin is made with winter milk in Alpine production)
or Al's recipe from 200 Easy Homemade Cheese recipes, page 239 with some modification:
3 gallons of milk with 3 pints of heavy cream
1/4 tsp meso
3/8 tsp penicillium candidum
1/32 tsp of geotrichum
3/8 tsp calcium chloride in water
1/2 tsp vegetable rennet[/li][/list]
Milk to 86° F
Add cultures
Wait 15 minutes and add calcium chloride,
Wait 15 minutes and add rennet, wait 50 minutes and check for clean break.
Cut the curd to pea size pieces (German standard says "cherry" size)
Let stand for 10 minutes
Slowly warm curd to 100° F while stirring continuously for 35 minutes
Hold for 10 minutes while curds settle
Pour contents into cheese cloth lined colander and drain
Divide curd into 6 equal segments and put into prepared mold
Press with 20 pounds of weight for 30 minutes (German standard says "lightly pressed"),
Flip over and press for a further 30 minutes.
Wrap with the prepared spruce bark (keep in a pan of steeping hot water prior to use to make soft).
Brine in 18% saturated brine for 12 hours turning over after 6 hours.
Dry at room temperature and place in cave
Flip every 12 hours for one week.
After one week flip and wash the top side of the cheese with brine solution leaving a good layer of brine on the surface
When flipping, the bottom side gets washed and then left up every two days
Continue until the cheeses soften German standard: aged 17 to 25 days between 9 and 16 C 85% RH
Al's Tips: "I keep these on a glass cutting board as the PC tends to grow quite a bit on the down side and wold easily attach itself to a mat. I used 5.1" diameter camembert molds which give you a cheese a little thicker than the spruce bark. About 2 inches thick."
From Alpkaseiri:
So the young cheese is put in the cave, and you turn it every day until stuff starts to grow. Then it is simply washed with salt water.
When it is done, you take the bark off and stuff the thing into a round box that is slightly smaller than your cheese. then you wash the rind off once more.
Some other tips I saw:
Boil spruce straps prior to use. How long? German standard is " 90 ° C for 30 minutes"
Wrap straps around cheese and secure in place with toothpick as shown i picture, or with string around periphery (http://muchtodoaboutcheese.com/2014/05/19/the-cheese-gets-the-strap/ (http://muchtodoaboutcheese.com/2014/05/19/the-cheese-gets-the-strap/))
Note: cheese may be initially loose in the strap, but will conform to size as it ages
Al's version: https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13797.0;attach=33877;image (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13797.0;attach=33877;image)
Only things I see: They get flipped and the bottom side washed and then left up every two days. There's no way you're removing that bark. It becomes part of the cheese. Other than that, Great Job!!
OK Al - made the change. Check to make sure it's correct please.
Thanks!
Looks good!!