This is my fourth or fifth blue and having experienced issues with each one :( I really wanted to get serious about doing what's needed to get a "really good" Roquefort-type blue. The recipe is from Caldwell's "rindless blue cheese" and I tried hard to hit all the marks.
Milk: 4 gal. creamline whole milk from Hickory Hill Dairy + 1 pt. heavy cream
Culture: 1/4 tsp. MM100; 1/16 tsp. P. roqueforti rehydrated in 1/4 cup room temp milk
Additives & coagulants*: 1/8 tsp. Lipase; 1 tsp. CaCl; 3/8 tsp. single strength rennet
*diluted in 1/4 cup non-chlorinated cool water
1. Pre-heated milk in water bath
2. Transferred to full-size pan on electric griddle; warmed milk to 89F
3. Sprinkled cultures on milk, waited 5 min. and stirred a couple of minutes
4. Held 89F for 30 min. to ripen
5. Added lipase, then CaCl; waited 5 min.
6. Added rennet and stirred 1 min.
7. Clean break was after 1 hr. 15 min. (recipe's goal time was 2 hr. so a bit short here)
8. Cut curds in 3/4" cubes; let rest 5 min.
9. Stirred gently every 5 min. or so maintaining 89F for 60 min.
10. Let curds settle (about 15 min)
11. Drained whey to level of curds; transferred curds to cloth lined colander.
note: there were too many curds for my colander so I drained balance of whey from the pan and put all curds back into the pan to salt.
12. Added 1.5 tsp. salt and mixed gently (recipe calls for 1 tsp. but I added a bit more because of some residual whey in pan).
13. Transferred curd to 6" dia x 10" tall clear cylindrical mold; placed follower on top
14. Drained in mold at room temperature 3 days, flipping each day and checking pH
15. Removed from mold (pH was 4.5, target was 4.8 so was a bit off here)
16. Kept at room temp. for 2 days, rubbing with salt every day.
17. Moved to minicave shooting for 55F / 90% RH
I was very happy with the nooks and crannys the cheese had, but after 5 days there were no signs of blue. Even after 10 days blue is here and there (see picture) but I still went ahead and pierced. The Pr I used was a bit dated so that may have been a problem but we'll have to see. I even thought about getting some good danish blue and trying to inoculate post-facto but I've never heard or seen this done?? Curious what the thoughts are about slow / late blue development and if I should worry or not?
I'll cross my fingers... :-)
Hi John,
That looks really good to me. I know you have access to good humidity controllers, so no problems there. ;D
How much dry salt got rubbed on the outside for the first couple days? I think the dry salting is why my Gorgonzola Picantes don't develop much of a fur coat. Since this is a rindless recipe maybe that's exactly how it should look right now?
My P.roq. is at least 2 years old, and I'm getting reasonable growth in my cheeses.
Larry
Quote from: John@PC on January 21, 2015, 04:45:10 PM
I even thought about getting some good danish blue and trying to inoculate post-facto but I've never heard or seen this done??
I wondered about that too. What if you split the wheel open and spread some other blue on with a knife. Then try to seal up the two halves of the wheel. Would it re-knit? Or were you thinking to just spread the established blue cheese on the rind of your wheel?
Hey Jon
Leave it alone, you got blue, it will come (http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/images/smilies/smilie_thumbsup.gif)
Quote from: LoftyNotions on January 21, 2015, 05:53:18 PM
How much dry salt got rubbed on the outside for the first couple days? I think the dry salting is why my Gorgonzola Picantes don't develop much of a fur coat. Since this is a rindless recipe maybe that's exactly how it should look right now?
Larry
I used maybe a tsp. or less of salt two or three times but what you say makes sense. It seems to be progressing (on the inside) so I'll just wait and be patient. Thanks for your comment on the Pr - that makes me feel better ;).
Looking great Jon but what's with the Lipase? :o
Quote from: Al Lewis on January 24, 2015, 12:34:17 AM
Looking great Jon but what's with the Lipase? :o
Hi Al. Yeah, that surprised me too. Caldwell adds it as optional to "help duplicate original Roquefort, which is made with rennet paste (contains lipase)." Personally I love the tang lipase gives, but does a "serious" blue need more tang? I guess I'll find out sometime this summer or fall :). Thanks for the other suggestions - I'll let it ride as is and do another peircing in a couple of weeks.
Back from a weeklong trip and having my neighbor turning this daily. Pulled it out this morning and it has some "serious" red mold development on the ends (I've nicknamed it "carrot top" :)). Sides looked great as did the core sample so I decided to scrape some off the top and bottom, re-inoculate surface by brushing on light PR/water solution then re-pierce. This was supposed to be a rindless blue but I've decided to take it full term (2 mo. before first cut) in it's minicave @ 90% RH and let the rind develop as it wants to.
Seriously good lookin' Cheese.
--Mal
Very nice cheese! :-)
Nice!!
Looks really good John. By 10 days my recent blue was a moldy mess... and I think mine was a very similar cheese (although mine are much smaller). I wonder why the differences. I added my salt into the cut curds and did not wash the outside with for the first 2 weeks. So maybe the blue has not formed on the surface because of the salt you rubbed there. Anyway, it's the inside that counts :)
Thanks all. I still think my P. roqueforti was not as virile as it should have been and "slow to grow". I hydrated some and brushed it onto a slice of bread and it was also very slow to develop (took about a week). Next time I'm going to extract some mold from our favorite local blue cheese (Clemson Blue Cheese) and use the sourdough method described here in the forum.
Well... Still looks like it's going to be great... :-)
Yesterday was one of those days that remind my why we all love to make cheese. We had dinner with friends last night and this 6 lb. blue was getting close to 2 mo. There was a thin crusty white rind surface on the sides and softer red and white on the top so I decided to do a light scrape. Even after that I was concerned because there wasn't much surface blue at all, but I did see some nice blue peaking out through the holes in the top and bottom. I also was worried because I noticed a strong ammonia smell in the days before which 4 hr. in a "fan" box helped greatly. Anyway, cutting it dispelled all of my concerns: great blue development with some orange tinges here and there and absolutely no off odors ;D. Taste was pretty much what you would expect from a young one like this: very mild blue flavor with a soft paste. I cut a pound to take to our dinner and will wrap the rest and let the flavor develop (may sample one a month or so).
One "new" thing I learned on this one was after watching some of the "piercing" videos that showed the skewers were all at an angle and pierced only from the sides. I realized that they do this to try to keep the holes from being parallel to the usual cutting pattern so you don't end up with "straight blue lines" on the cut surface. Before I realized this I had done the first piercing using the customary pattern (vertical and horizontal) which you see in the pictures. On the subsequent piercing I tried to duplicate the angle shown in the video which were neither perfectly vertical or horizontal. This is a small point I know and I could be wrong on the reason behind the "angling" so if anyone has thoughts pro or con please chime in.
Next blue will be with home-grown PR, which I'll do after trying to copy Al's Tallegio.
Wow, John. That's an awesome cheese! AC4U.
Now that you bring up the angled piercing rationale, that makes perfect sense. Very logical.
Larry
Thanks Larry. One other thing I noticed is if you look at the picture of the taller half you see a concentration of blue along the center axis. I didn't pierce completely through but did go past half-way and apparently ended up with more voids in that area. The "angled" piercing would also prevent this from happening.
If you read my post on my last blue John I addressed that. I did the same thing on my first blue. Now I stop just short of center when piercing from the sides. That's still a beautiful blue though!! AC4U
If it tastes as good as it looks, then it's just perfect! AC4U! :-)
Been watching this with interest.. I think a cheese is needed. This was going to be my next blue and you have just convinced me.. Thanks John. I wonder if this is something we could do as a group. Take one recipe from a book and several people make it and then collate them all in some feedback to the authors maybe..
A worthy Blue !
-- Mal
Sounds like fun Mal! Mine's done!! LOL
Mine is to .
That's a wonderful idea!!! I'm in, if I may... It would be of great value for the author as well as all of us. :-)
That's a beautiful cheese!!! AC4U!!!
I'm taking you all mean you have done this 'RindLess' Blue from G.C's book. Ok, I'm nearly at the end of my last Blue.. so time to crank it up a notch.
-- Mal
Thought I would cut a sample and taste. I had vacuumed bagged these about a month ago. I had one bag that must have had a leak and lost it's vacuum so I picked that one to sample. When I opened the bag there were no off-odors (ammonia or otherwise) and all I can say the taste was wonderful :) ;). Sweet with a mild blue flavor and a paste that's transitioning from creamy to something slightly more crumbly than a month ago. We ate about 4 oz. and I re-bagged the remaining. I can't wait to see how this one progresses. I also think it will be an interesting experiment with vac bagging vs. vac bagging with a slight degree of air exchange (i.e. a small perforation).
Very pretty. Have a cheese on me.
Thanks Stinky. I do feel like I have earned my "blue belt" now with this one ^-^.
So it did indeed taste as good as it looks? Yummi! Have one more cheese from me!... :-)
That's one gorgeous blue John! :P AC4U!!
Aye ! A cheese for ye.!
What a great looking cheese with caves and pierce lines - looks great. We finally finished the last of our Silky Blue :) and the Vac Packing is a great way to maintain the cheese once cut. Taste was great texture was smooth and the paste was very nearly spreadable. I hope you tastes as good ..
-- Mal
Thanks all. I can't wait to do another and learn more about making blue better and easier! For me it is the most versatile cheese whether it's for table, salads, garnish for steak ;D ;D. New and novice cheese makers seem to shy away from jumping in but this forum is helping to break the glass blue ceiling!!
This forum did that for me as well... without the wonderful advise and documenting of previous experiences by other that have been there before us, made it so much easier.
- Mal
AC4U from Michigan! Great looking cheese.