Hello, I'm a beginner cheesemaker and I want to choose one cheese to master during this year (or at least make a decent one). I primarily like stinky cheese, and if I had to choose one cheese I'd like to master is epoisses. However I'm not that ambitious and I'm perfectly fine trying something simpler.
Sample types of cheese I like:
Camembert
Epoisses
Reblochon
Coulomiers
I read somewhere that for someone that likes epoisses, munster could be a nice easier cheese to start with, I've never tried it but I'm willing to try it out. (http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/pg/209-Munster.html (http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/pg/209-Munster.html))
My requirements:
Relatively safe if anything goes wrong
Can be made with pasteurised milk (can get organic, non homogenised, non ultra-pasteurised)
Would like to to make in ~2Gal batches
Ageing of 1-2 months max, so I can iterate often
Availability of detailed recipes
More or less in sync with my tastes, prefer washed rind cheese
Lastly, I've made some fresh cheese already and done some reading. I'm capable of very precise measuring and meticulous note taking in order to achieve improve my method over subsequent batches. Also don't care to invest in the right equipment (within reason).
Thanks!
I was planning on saying something like Gouda, until I read your list and preferences :)
In my experience, any of the washed-rind would not be the first thing I'd recommend to start with, as there's a lot of variables to fine-tune - e.g. curd pH, salt content, washing regime, cave humidity. Bloomy rinds like camembert are perhaps a better start.
Here (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10901.0.html) is a link to the thread I did when I made Epoisse. It wasn't that difficult to make but expensive with the cognac wash. Here (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10862.0.html) is another for the triple cream Bries I do. Very easy to master. Once you get going you may want to try a Taleggio. Very smelly but very delicious. Making one now here (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13900.0.html). Good luck with whatever you try. :D
I'd start with Jack, Havarti, simpler ones, before I went into more complicated things.
I started with Camembert...
I would suggest that you make a couple of batches of Feta. This way you can practice the different techniques required. It is the same techniques that are required for Camemberts. The big advantage with Feta is that you are rewarded right away as Feta does not have to age.
:-) Danbo
Taleggio!
I started with feta but ultimately I think it's better to dive right in. I don't love feta so it's not quite as exciting to focus on making a cheese you're not crazy about. Just go for it. Since you're doing small batches you have nothing to lose and you will learn so much each time you make it. Sounds like you are meticulous ! Can't wait to see what you make
If you do go into washed rind, read this.
Washed rind cheeses requires precise aging environment like a fridge with a controller to keep the temp at 10-11C and plastic boxes in the fridge to hold the cheese in a humid environment for the yeast and bacteria to grow.
My suggestion is to try to make an epoisses without washing first. See if you can get it aged without spoiling it. Once you understand the recipe and the texture is right, you can start working for the aroma with washing on your next make.
As you are a starter, all the process has to sink in first. Properties of the milk and how to handle, understanding the starter bacteria, rennet and flocculation technique, cutting, stirring, cooking, draining, pressing, salting, brining, drying, aging are all to be considered and has to find their places in your busy life. Once you have the process and know how long it is going to take till you get it in the fridge/cheese-cave will give you a pretty good idea of how you plan your day around it.
My other suggestion is to start with feta, camembert, gouda, cheddar (in this order from easy to hard).
Good luck
Yo Francisco, I to would recommend Feta and I would hold off on the Cameberts as they too have a complicated ripening that that a bit to get right. It took me a few goes... Feta has a few quirks about it as well and is challenging to Master but easy to at least make something very nice to eat. The other members here are amazing and willing to help with anything cheese related you may need.
Welcome aboard and look forward to see you first cheese. One big tip.. Take lots of Notes about everything you did as it will be invaluable in recreating the good and avoiding the bad - and we all have the 'Bad'. Somedays it just doesn't work, but don't give up. 8)
-- Mal
Thanks for all the responses, great information in here! I think I'll avoid the feta since I don't really like feta cheese and I'd prefer to do something that it's satisfying for me to eat. :)
I didn't mentioned in my first post, but I've been doing Stracchino, and as you say, some where good, some bad, but overall it's been improving in subsequent batches, so I'm probably doing things the right way. I'm taking lots of notes of every step and noting exactly what changed from one time to another and taking pictures of stuff with the new values I'm using on each batch (if I feel it's necessary to change something)
I could do camembert as some suggested, although I'd rather do something less common. My main concern in the beginning is to be able to use pasteurised milk without that being a big compromise for the recipe I choose.
I really liked the idea of making epoisses without washing first and master different parts of the process, although I wonder if the resulting cheese would be ok to eat or if it would be just to test; in any case, I'd rather go for something simpler, maybe not too simple, but not too hard either. ;)
Regarding my cave, I bought a wine fridge that should be able to hold the temperatures necessary for ageing and plan to use it exclusively for whatever recipe I choose, so I guess I should be able to control the humidity for the whole fridge without specific plastic containers (correct me if I'm wrong).
If instead of going with a washed rind cheese I went with a bloomy rind one, is camembert a good option or maybe there is something better and interesting to start with?
Cam is a great one to start with - pretty straight forward.
Francisco, a wine fridge works well for me, but my experience is that it will have much too low humidity unless you take some steps to raise it. The simplest thing you can do (and what I am doing now) is to hang some cheese cloth from a shelf, with the bottom resting in a pan of water. This will be a big improvement over nothing, and even a big improvement over just having the pan of water in there, but of course there is no way to regulate it. My experience suggests that you probably won't get too much humidity that way; it will still be lower than optimum.
If you want to control the RH for the whole fridge more precisely, you would need to invest in an active solution, such as this: http://www.perfect-cheese.com/humidity-control-package. (http://www.perfect-cheese.com/humidity-control-package.) But even if you do that, you may want a different RH for some cheeses than for others.
Thus, the ripening box -- simply a plastic container that is large enough to hold the cheese, with a lid that can be set loosely on top. The cheese itself supplies the humidity; the box contains it so that it remains at a sufficiently high level. I bought some dirt-cheap plastic containers at Walmart that are doing beautifully with my first camemberts and my first blue.
The Epoisse would be fine to eat without the cognac wash. It really only lends a aroma to the cheese. The cheese is very easy to make. It is nearly identical to doing a baby brie or camembert except you use PLA instead of PC. Same goes for the taleggio, same make as Epoisse except you heat the milk to 90 instead of 86. What you do with them after the make is what makes them different so if you do any one of them you are pretty much making all of them.
I am sticking to tommes and reblochons for a year or so to get a good understanding of milk and how it changes .
My first reblochons were much tastier and more correct in flavor than the tommes and yet they are considered harder to make . But I find them only harder in the ph markers that you are trying to hit .
This is a very good thread on reblochons
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?topic=9928.0 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?topic=9928.0)
awakephd, very interesting what you say about the fridges, didn't really know the space itself was important to keep the moisture, since it came from the cheese itself, it makes sense. The fridge I bought initially is quite small, so it may be fine if I fill it with a lot of cheese, but will also keep in mind the use of plastic lids. I certainly noted that humidity is low in the fridge.
One more question, is there some key place where to take recipes from or you all just take recipes from here and there?
I think I have a lot of ideas to go on, will read a little more and decide what to do. I think I'll prioritise some cheese where I don't need to use different room/cave temperatures for different parts of the process, as it seems it's the case with the reblochon that was posted.
Of the cheese mentioned in this thread: Camembert, epoisses, reblochon, taleggio, what do you think it would be the best to do with pasteurised milk? (organic, non homogenised), and which would be the "safest" one?
Francisco,
This forum certainly provides great recipes, though sometimes you have to "extract" them from make notes -- e.g., the post may give the actual time when different steps were performed, rather than the amount of time needed between steps. And sometimes the make notes may make some assumptions about what people already know about that make.
I currently have 3 books with recipes, all of which I recommend:
Ricki Carroll's Home Cheese Making - doesn't include details such as pH or flocc targets, but I've found her recipes nearly always work for me -- though they may not lead to exactly the kind of cheese I was hoping. The one thing that doesn't work for me is her 30-minute mozzarella.
Debra Amrein-Boyes, 200 Easy Homemade Cheese recipes - again, no pH or flocc targets, but I've had good results with these recipes, especially with some tweaks suggested on this forum. One thing often mentioned is that her psi targets for pressing seem high by a factor of 10.
Gianaclis Caldwell's Mastering Artisan Cheesemaking - a great book for understanding more about what is actually happening in the making of the cheese, and how the different variables lead to different results. Not a lot of different recipes, but rather a solid foundation of recipe-types from which the cheesemaker can try variations.
With pasteurized milk, any of them are "safe" in terms of concerns about food safety -- so long as you don't get late or early blowing, which are pretty distinctive if they happen. (I've never experienced either thus far, about 30-35 cheeses into the hobby.) If you are using raw milk, you are supposed to age for at least 60 days for food safety. If your milk is ultra-pasteurized (high heat, short time), forget it -- it won't work for much of anything. But if it is regular pasteurized, or better yet low-temp-long-time pasteurized, and non-homogenized, it should work very nicely indeed for anything you want to make.
Couldn't agree more Andy. I have those three books and they are the staple I use for recipes. You can also find Rikki Carrol's recipes on her site but you will need to do a little research as she quotes using sachets of her product rather than stating outright what it is. You can find them here (http://www.cheesemaking.com/recipes/recipedetails.html). Your info doesn't give a location but if you have a Kindle you can download a short book titled Homemade Cheese Recipes (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I7X6ANI/?tag=mh0b-20&hvadid=4962929881&ref=pd_sl_3w8ivvo2zd_e) from Echo Bay Books for 99 cents U.S. Good basic recipes for many of the more popular cheeses including those you have mentioned. Once you get into it You may want to pick up Mary Karlin's Artisan Cheese Making at Home.
Thanks for the tips, again :)
I'm actually currently reading Gianaclis Caldwell's book, I choose that one due to the fact that it seemed the most "scientific" one, since I like to really understand how things work.
Regarding the milk, I'm in CA, US and I have easy access to this: http://strausfamilycreamery.com/products/item/organic-whole-milk (http://strausfamilycreamery.com/products/item/organic-whole-milk)
I think it meets the requirements mentioned above, so that's great.
That milk looks perfect.