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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Semi-Hard "Sweet" Washed Curd => Topic started by: Danbo on February 13, 2015, 06:01:25 PM

Title: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 13, 2015, 06:01:25 PM
I made an experiment today and made a Gouda with pesto.

It looks fine and knitted without problems, but I don't know how it will turn out after two months of ageing.

It's now in the brine.

:-) Danbo
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Sweet Leaves Farm on February 13, 2015, 09:30:24 PM
Looks lovely! I thought a pesto rub would be a good rind. Now my mouth is watering...
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Mermaid on February 14, 2015, 02:42:45 PM
Yum!!!
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 14, 2015, 03:27:44 PM
Thank you! It's so motivating... :-)
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Al Lewis on February 14, 2015, 06:35:19 PM
Did you use pine nuts in the pesto when you made it?  If this retains the flavor of the pesto I would love to make one of these.  Wife hates pesto but I love it!!
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 14, 2015, 07:36:00 PM
Al:
I have to confess... I bought the pesto (with pine nuts)...


I warmed up (not cooked) the pesto to make the oil flow a bit easier and drained as much as possible without pressing it. I was afraid that the oil would perhaps prevent the cheese from knitting well. Until now it seems OK.


My wife like pesto BUT she doesn't like cheese - unless it is without any taste at all... :-(


:-) Danbo
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Al Lewis on February 14, 2015, 07:40:55 PM
When the season hits we can get fresh basil really cheap here so it's definitely pesto time.  I wonder if you could have made it yourself without the oil?  Seems it would still be suitable for making cheese.
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 14, 2015, 07:55:45 PM
I think that it would be much better to make it yourself. But I was lazy - promize not to be the next time and use basil from my green house (when the summer comes).


Byusing pesto from a glass I figured that I could use directly in the cheese without heat treatment etc. Hope that I'm right...


:-) Danbo


Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: GoudaGirl13 on February 20, 2015, 04:37:15 AM
Looks fabulous, Danbo! A cheese for you! :)
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 20, 2015, 06:16:32 AM
Thanks. :-)
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: awakephd on February 20, 2015, 02:39:45 PM
Quote from: Al Lewis on February 14, 2015, 07:40:55 PM
When the season hits we can get fresh basil really cheap here so it's definitely pesto time.  I wonder if you could have made it yourself without the oil?  Seems it would still be suitable for making cheese.

Al, I would guess that the oil serves three purposes: 1) flavor (assuming good olive oil!); 2) allows the basil, pine nuts, etc. to be processed smoothly; 3) ?? maybe some benefit to shelf life??

I would think you could use plain water to help process the basil, pine nuts, garlic, etc., and add that to the cheese. However ... it seems like elsewhere that I have read some concern about adding fresh vegetable matter to cheese. Might be like canning a low-acid vegetable -- danger of botulism?? I'm not sure, but if it were me, I think I would boil the resulting pesto before adding to the cheese ... even though that would no doubt change the flavor.

Just thinking aloud ...
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Stinky on February 20, 2015, 02:57:54 PM
Well, I was thinking of mimicking this one cheese I had one time- it was Italian, and was an olive oil and basil cheese. So I was thinking maybe an Asiago? Boil the basil, and mix it with oul, and drizzle over the curds? Rub with olive oil or maybe even wax so the little bits don't get moldy on the outside.
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 20, 2015, 03:19:50 PM
Awakephd: Would you think that I'm safe since I used it from a sealed bought glas?


Stinky: Sounds good to me...


:-)
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Al Lewis on February 20, 2015, 05:26:35 PM
It just surprised me that the curds knit so well with oil on them.
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 20, 2015, 06:00:14 PM
Al: Me too... :-)
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Al Lewis on February 20, 2015, 06:01:33 PM
Thinking about the port cheese un-knitting.  Hope this one stays together. ;)
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 20, 2015, 06:04:30 PM
My port cheddar had no issues but my madeira cheddar had knitting problems. Vacuum packing it helped though...
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Al Lewis on February 20, 2015, 06:14:58 PM
I stand corrected.  I knew one of them came undone.  I am still trying to figure out why this never seems to be an issue with ale washed cheeses.  If the oiled one stays together it may be a bigger mystery. :o
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 20, 2015, 06:22:18 PM
Maybe the beer cheeses have no problems due to a lower alcohol percent. Just a guess...
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Al Lewis on February 20, 2015, 06:27:59 PM
I still don't think the answer to alcohol, wife keeps telling me that "alcohol isn't the answer to your problems" LOL  My reasoning behind that is the fact that I used straight merlot in the colby I did and only adjusted the PH.  The alcohol in that wine should have been close to yours although merlot is not a fortified wine.
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 20, 2015, 07:32:12 PM
LOL! ;-)


It could be so many things including PH, pressing, salting, curd moisture etc.


:-) Danbo
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Al Lewis on February 20, 2015, 07:45:30 PM
Yep, another mystery for the ages. LOL
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: awakephd on February 21, 2015, 06:25:22 PM
Quote from: Danbo on February 20, 2015, 03:19:50 PM
Awakephd: Would you think that I'm safe since I used it from a sealed bought glas?

I think it certainly improves your chances ... :) Presumably the bought pesto either has preservatives in it, or was canned in such a way as to preclude botulism. Actually, thinking about it -- just boiling the ingredients might not be enough, since it takes heat above 100˚C to kill botulism spores. This might be a good question to address to someplace like a state agricultural agency, or something like that ...
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Kern on February 21, 2015, 11:59:16 PM
Quote from: Danbo on February 20, 2015, 03:19:50 PM
Would you think that I'm safe since I used it from a sealed bought glas?

I would think that there is enough acid in the cheese to prevent botulism from forming.  I think mold and rot would be more likely that botulism.  Who knows?  Do you have a cat?   ;)
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: awakephd on February 23, 2015, 01:59:46 PM
Hmm ... not necessarily. pH needs to be below 4.6 to prevent botulism growth. That will be true of some cheeses, but many (most?) are going to be more like 5.1-5.3, I think ... but let me be the first to point out that I am out of my depth here. We need an expert!
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 23, 2015, 07:59:27 PM
Yes, it would be great with some expert afvice on this.


I assume that there could also be a risk when using sage, peppercorns etc.


Has someone out there expertise in this area?


:-) Danbo
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Al Lewis on February 23, 2015, 08:04:04 PM
Check with Tiarella Danbo.  I think she's pretty much put everything into a cheese from time to time.
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 23, 2015, 08:20:35 PM
Thanks - I've send her a PM. :-)
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Tiarella on February 24, 2015, 04:26:20 AM
Hi Danbo!  I have not actually put every known substance into a cheese but I have tried a few things.  I've only put chives into cheese but I have put many leaves and also birch bark on cheese as well as shiitake mushroom.  (dried and crumbled....well the work "crumbled" doesn't give a true impression....I had to beat the hell out of it to get it into smaller pieces and then put it dry into a food processor.  I also tried using a grater on it and that works fairly well on both hard dry mushrooms and tender fingers)

I don't worry to much about mold and things like that......mostly because after thinking I could get totally neurotic and fearful about it I realized that zillions of cheeses had been made under almost every condition and most cheese eaters live.  I believe that there is almost everything floating around in the air and it's all about making the bio-terrain of the rind inhospitable to the things we want to avoid.  Yes, dried leaves have plenty of mold on them but maybe dry your own and don't have it hang in a dusty drying barn, don't leave it around thrown on floors until processing, etc. 

I think if I wanted to make a similar cheese my first experiment would be very high quality basil (from the garden) dried and crumbled into small pieces that I'd add to the cheese.  Then for the outside I'd take basic pesto but thicken it by adding more dried basil.....or maybe I'd make pesto using coconut oil (maybe use a version with less coconut flavor) so that when at cheese cave temperature it would be thick.....i'd put that on like icing a cake.  While it aged I'd watch for any patches of mold and if they appeared I'd rub a little coconut oil there to smother it.  Might just be able to rub it without adding any more oil....sure worked that way on my paprika versions.  Oh and the paprika was likely full of molds but I had no trouble with it.  Hope this helps     I don't think I'd boil the basil.  You could heat it dry in a hot oven to kill off some mold if you're concerned.  I'd google "can dried herbs carry botulism?" and see what you find.
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 24, 2015, 04:58:41 AM
Thanks Tiarella,


I am actually a bit paranoid about my cheeses. I'm not that good with bacteria... OMG what a hobby to choose?! ;-)


I think there is a big difference on putting things ON the cheese and IN the cheese. Inside the cheese anearobic conditions apply. As far as I know botulism is a bacteria that only lives on anerobic conditions.


Is that a problem when vacuum packing also? Oh no... Now I'm being paranoid again... ;-)
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Tiarella on February 24, 2015, 05:06:24 AM
The chives I put in the cheese I put first in a frying pan and seared them a bit.  You could do that with fresh herbs to kill off much of what is on them?  Or you could use cheese making as an opportunity to practice equanimity.   ;D  I'm tired.....off to bed after freezing today.  Very cold and very windy all day.....  here's a photo of me frozen after evening chores....just after taking my hat off....photo taken of reflection in antique mirror.
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: qdog1955 on February 24, 2015, 07:54:51 AM
I'm no expert on botulism----but I know that it is rare in semi hard to hard cheese----do a search on here and Sailor and Linux talk about it. I do know that botulism can be a problem for sausage makers---especially smoked sausage---therefore the sodium nitrite and a required internal temp about 143 degrees.
Qdog 
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 24, 2015, 09:58:08 AM
Tiarella:
Yes - I need to be better to live with bacteria. ;-) After all I would die without them... Nice image! Here in Denmark we have a very mild winter without extreme cold. No much use for our woodburning stove this year... :-)


Qdog: Thanks - I'll do a seach in the forum. :-)
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Tiarella on February 24, 2015, 12:49:09 PM
Mild winter in Denmark???  Simply not fair that we are getting everyone's winter in one place here.  It is also true that many of the US places that normally have a cold and snowy winter are also mild while we seem to get it all.  At least I am in western Massachusetts and not in the Eastern part which got hammered by even more snow which is particularly hard in cities.   :-\
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 24, 2015, 02:37:06 PM
It has snowed a couple of times and that's it... :-)
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Stinky on February 24, 2015, 03:11:24 PM
It never snows here.

Typically stays above 45 or so.
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Tiarella on February 24, 2015, 05:26:58 PM
It was about -10 F last night and the barn pump lost a bearing so I had to take it apart this morning and fix it so that I'd still have water at the barn.  We have had snow storms about twice a week for the last 2 months and our drifts are easily over 5 feet tall.  My fencing is only about a foot above the snow line and it's 5' high so that gives you a sense of how deep the snow is in the main field.  I'm ready for milder weather.
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Al Lewis on February 24, 2015, 05:35:46 PM
Been clear skies and 60° here in the pacific northwest. ;D
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Kern on February 24, 2015, 06:25:52 PM
Quote from: Al Lewis on February 24, 2015, 05:35:46 PM
Been clear skies and 60° here in the pacific northwest. ;D

Stay tuned, Al, the 6-10 day forecast for the PNW is below average temperatures, rain with some sun, lows in the low 30's and highs around 45.   :-\
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 24, 2015, 08:12:27 PM
Tiarella: Minus 10 F.... That's minus 23 C... Brrrrrrrrrrrrr... That's cold! Here this evening it is around 4 C / 39 F.


The coldest day in Denmark (since 1874) was January 1982: -31,2 C / -24 F
The warmest day in Denmark (since 1874) was August 1975: 36,4 C / 98 F


:-) Danbo
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on February 25, 2015, 06:51:42 AM
If you made your own pesto then you could substitute cream for the oil and it would mix well with the milk.
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 25, 2015, 07:59:14 AM
Sounds like a good idea... :-)
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Tiarella on February 25, 2015, 12:41:43 PM
Quote from: Danbo on February 24, 2015, 08:12:27 PM
Tiarella: Minus 10 F.... That's minus 23 C... Brrrrrrrrrrrrr... That's cold! Here this evening it is around 4 C / 39 F.


The coldest day in Denmark (since 1874) was January 1982: -31,2 C / -24 F
The warmest day in Denmark (since 1874) was August 1975: 36,4 C / 98 F


:-) Danbo

Although this winter is colder than is our recent normal it is not as cold as it used to be every year. We used to have two weeks of -34 F every single night and not above 0 during the day. I'll always remember having the splashed water freeze on my cheeks as I used a sledge hammer to break the river ice so the cows could drink. In those years we had more sun than we've had this year and we had a real January thaw which we haven't had this year. I can remember standing outside in the large hay feeder forking the old hay over the edge wearing just a tank shirt and jeans because it was sunny and about 40 F. 

This winter has been different than usual and while as farmers we have more shoveling to do I think we still have an easier time than most in our area.  Most businesses that rely on customers arriving are suffering badly because of so many bad travel days and even outright travel bans.  Cities have no where to put the snow and business people with city offices that rely on their customers being able to find parking are very hurt by this. Google "parking in Boston" and you'll see some amazing photos. I think they've had about 10 feet of snow so far. Roofs are collapsing and many other houses have leaks inside the walls from ice dams forming at the edge of their roofs.
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 25, 2015, 05:11:23 PM
Sounds a little rough to be a farmer during the winter. How do you manage all that creative cheesemaking etc.?
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Tiarella on February 25, 2015, 05:24:16 PM
Quote from: Danbo on February 25, 2015, 05:11:23 PM
Sounds a little rough to be a farmer during the winter. How do you manage all that creative cheesemaking etc.?

Well, right now there's no milk so no cheese making which is good because I'd be hard-pressed (pun intended) to find the time for cheese making!  Laundry never gets folded and I'm behind on paperwork but otherwise everything is mostly getting done.  Sunny today and almost 30 degrees so it feels lovely.

check out Boston's snow.  They are 3 hours east of us....we got a bit less snow each storm.
Here's some links:  http://ohiostate.scout.com/forums/3159-the-nut-house/13662303-boston-snow-pics (http://ohiostate.scout.com/forums/3159-the-nut-house/13662303-boston-snow-pics)
http://www.dogonews.com/2015/2/24/boston-residents-tackle-severe-winter-weather-with-good-humor-and-a-little-insanity (http://www.dogonews.com/2015/2/24/boston-residents-tackle-severe-winter-weather-with-good-humor-and-a-little-insanity)
Title: Re: Gouda with Pesto
Post by: Danbo on February 25, 2015, 05:59:46 PM
WOW - that's crazy!