Well, it's been a long time since I was last on here. A quick update, for those of you who remember me: I did get accepted to all the schools I applied to, but decided to go to UT Knoxville. We moved from Colorado Springs to Knoxville, and I've been working on my PhD in Energy Science and Engineering for a few months now. My wife (and I) also started a business making wooden decorations. With the move, school and business, I haven't had time for cheese, until this weekend.
A friend from church found a raw milk supplier for us, we bought a share of the herd, and they are willing to give us 10 gallons at a time instead of the standard 1 gallon/week. This means I should be making cheese every couple of months (quite a bit less frequently than my previous every couple of weeks, but at least I'm doing it again). We followed Caldwell's MAC instructions for Cheddar.
Everything went great. The only exception was that floc time was a little longer than I expected (about 18 minutes). That was partly because I couldn't find my notebook (moving is frustrating in some ways). I also reduced the culture by about 25% from what I recall normally adding to store bought milk. I was very impressed with the strength of the curds when I cut into them--they didn't break really at all. In general, everything went really well. We'll see in a number of months how it turns out.
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It is nice to see you on the forum again, and good luck on the cheddar! I just opened a cheddar made in August from the Caldwell recipe, using raw Jersey milk. It was pretty good!! A cheese to you for getting into schools and for getting back into cheesiness!
Good to see you back Mike! Nice looking cheddar. I've found fied's Cheshire make to be a very good cheddar (I've made it a couple times now). Also, Dunlop is anther cheddar that has consistently produced a nice result for me. Finally, I've cut into a 9 month old Derby that is really good! (Despite the home books, Derby doesn't go through the cheddaring phase according to the British Cheese Board (see here http://www.britishcheese.com/derby (http://www.britishcheese.com/derby)), so I went looking through some old books from the 1800s early 1900s and found a description of the protocol, which I adapted for home use. It's on the board somewhere.
Anyway, if you like the cheddar types, those are all good ones and all of them age out nicely.
- Jeff
Glad to see you back Mike!! Sounds like everything is working out for you. Glad to hear that. Doesn't look like you've lost your touch with cheese. That's a beauty there! AC4U buddy!! ;D
Looks nice - it deserves a cheese... :-)
Think you are going to be happy with the raw milk cheese -----the flavor improvement in mine was wonderful.
Except a cheese for a fine looking cheese.
Qdog
Thanks, everyone! I'll keep you all posted on how this guy turns out. The new cave seems to be working fine so far, though it's pretty cold here right now. We'll see how it performs when summer comes.
Well, I finally opened up this cheese. It has great texture, and melts really well. Unfortunately, it appears to have the same mouth numbing effect and some of the not-so-good flavor as the other cheese made with this milk.https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,15664.msg119715.html#msg119715 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,15664.msg119715.html#msg119715)
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If it is butyric acid that causes this flavor and mouth experience, I'm guessing it's from something in the raw milk. That's disappointing because the cheese making went so well compared to other milks that I have used. Bummer. I made another cheese a few weeks ago with milk from this farm. I won't age it as long, so we'll see how it turns out.
Too bad Mike... That must be frustrating.
I hope you find the source of this off flavour and mouth numbing thing...
I know you said you will try a shorter aged cheese.. Good plan.. You really need to nip this in the bud... Before it drives you nuts!
May I suggest... A fast (instant eating) cheese like Queso Fresco, should offer quick test results.. Then maybe a havarti .. Then maybe a Caerphilly... each one needing slightly longer aging times to see if you can replicate and narrow down the possible cause to this anomaly. I say this so you don't have to wait too long to figure this out ..and gives enough variety of cheese types to see if it manifests again under certain conditions.
Good luck man..
Oh bummer! Very frustrating.
Butyric acid is a common problem in Parm style cheeses, but I don't know about Cheddar. Aging it for 16 months could certainly allow the butyric acid to develop.
How is the salt level in these two cheeses?
Were both made in the winter? Ask the farmer if he feeds silage in the winter. They should just be on pasture with some hay at this point in the year, so maybe make cheese now but not in the winter?
It's almost certainly your milk , try another.
Or gently pasteurize your milk first.
This is what's in your milk :
Bacillus subtilis, known also as the hay bacillus or grass bacillus, is a Gram-positive, catalase-positive bacterium, found in soil and the gastrointestinal tract of ruminants and humans. A member of the genus Bacillus, B. subtilis is rod-shaped, and can form a tough, protective endospore, allowing it to tolerate extreme environmental conditions.
It is what reacts with lactose and creates butyric acid , I get it in my raw milk cheeses as well if aged too long , luckily I make mostly younger or mold ripened cheeses.
Your cheese may not be acidifying properly.
Clearly, my short term cheeses idea is irrelevant... If this is what it is..sorry, I thought it was in all cheeses not just aged raw milk cheeses. The pasteurization option may work.
Jwalker, I'm having trouble finding anything that indicates that Bacillus subtilis causes trouble in raw milk. It is naturally present in cattle guts and is even fed as a probiotic to increase milk production. Also, it is not killed by pasteurization, so I would think it would be an issue with all milk, not just raw milk.
I do know that silage is prohibited in the diets of cows that produce many of the name-controlled well-aged European cheeses for this reason (Parmigiano-Reggiano for one).
I wish I could point to a link, but the info I have is from a cheesemaker who spoke to Peter Dixon and Margaret Morris, so I'm just going from memory.
They had made some Grana style cheeses from whole raw Jersey milk that had that pronounced fruity/tingling flavor. None of the raw milk cheeses made before or after had that problem - only these that were aged 18-24 months. The main issue was too high butterfat, and not enough salt. And a different culture might have helped, but unfortunately I can't remember that detail.
Mike, I am very curious to hear if this farm feeds silage in the winter. I wouldn't worry about this too much - just stick to cheeses aged <10 months for your next few.
I always add Lysozyme (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysozyme)to my long aged raw milk cheeses. It kills gram positive bacteria and is used commercially by many cheese makers. It is also used to help prevent secondary fermentation in wine. I've found it at beer and wine making supply stores on-line.
According to Kerns wiki.... Crying over (spilled) milk really does help :)
Thanks for everyone's thoughts and comments. Like I said, I've got another cheese made from this milk that should be ready in about 6 weeks. We'll see how that turns out. To answer questions and comments:
Salt content in both seems good (based on taste). The cheddar should be right on since I salted prior to pressing and didn't have much whey run off while salting. The parm salt uptake is a little harder to judge, though it was brined in-line with previous cheeses I've made of the same size. For example, I've been eating a Gouda style cheese I made 2 1/2 years ago (with milk from Sam's club!) that has none of this flavor/mouth feel.
Both were made in the winter (February for the cheddar, March for the parm), so the milk probably had higher fat content than it does now. Like I said, in the other post, the parm definitely had too much fat. I haven't had a chance to ask the farmer about silage, but I'll do that next time I talk with him.
Acidifying: I was getting good acidification in the vat--dropped to 6.3 (target was 6.4 :( ) before pressing the parm, and down to 5.35 before I salted the cheddar.
I might have to try lysozyme, it seems like a pretty good option (assuming these bacteria are the problem...), or I'll cry in my milk like Fritz recommends. :)
Or, I could just go back to milk from grocery stores...it's a lot more frustrating during the make, but none of my cheeses made from P/H milk ever made my mouth numb. ;)
Human tears contain small amounts of lysozyme, so Fritz wasn't making idle chatter! So do egg whites - the main source of commercial lysozyme.
Quote from: Frodage on January 12, 2015, 01:08:37 AM
This is the first time I've heard of lysozyme being used in cheese. Back in my first biochem course they mentioned it was first isolated from human tears. So, if you can't buy it, try crying into your curds! :)
Oh!! How do you use egg whites in cheese making? I always use raw milk and I have my own laying hens so I would like to try this in my next cheddar make and see if it helps it to not get goatie after several months in the cave.
You don't use egg whites. You purchase some Lysozyme on line. Wine making suppliers often have it as it is used in wine to prevent secondary (bottle) fermentation. I use it in ALL my long aged hard cheeses. So do many European cheesemakers.
Can't wait to try this! Going to order some today, I make either 2 or 4 gallon batches, how much would I add and how do I add it? This gives me new hope for cheddar!!
I add 1/4 tsp per 6 gallons of milk. It is important to add it to the milk when about half the milk is in the vat. Add it, stir to dissolve and then add the other half and stir well. Do this before heating the milk beyond room temperature or adding anything else. I believe that the Lysozyme complexes with the casein protein in milk so it only becomes "toxic" to anything attacking the milk protein. It does not affect the activity of adjunct bacteria like PS, etc., which normally go after lactic acid.