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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Cooked (Swiss) => Topic started by: Al Lewis on March 14, 2015, 09:01:16 PM

Title: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 14, 2015, 09:01:16 PM
Okay, after talking at length with Alp and reading all of his previous posts on Emmental I reviewed Tom Smith's recipe, Debra Amrein-Boyes, and Caldwell's recipes and came up with this one.  It may not be right, it may not be what everyone does, it may not be kosher, but I did it anyway.  One important fact to follow, not mentioned anywhere else in here, use a mold that gives you a cheese at least 4" thick.  I opted for a 8" Tomme mold.  You can get it here (http://www.cheesemaking.com/shop/cheese-making-mold-hard-cheese-large.html).
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 14, 2015, 09:02:36 PM
Here is the recipe I came up with.  It is a combination of several so don't try looking it up.


Emmental

6 gallons 2% (reduced fat) PH milk

2 gallons whole PH milk

½ teaspoon Thermophilic B

½ teaspoon LH 100 or Thermophilic C  ( I used LH 100 )

¾ teaspoon Propionic Bacteria powder

1½ teaspoon calcium chloride

1½ vegetable rennet tablets

Divide milk equally into two 5 gallon pots while heating to 90° F.  Reserve ½ gallon in each of the last two gallon bottles.  Divide the cultures and propionic bacteria equally and add into each of the half full jugs.  Shake well to incorporate and add to their respective pots stirring top to bottom to incorporate the mixture.

After 10 minutes add in the divided calcium chloride, each portion diluted in ¼ cup of non-chlorinated water and stir again top to bottom until fully incorporated.

Continue heating milk to 90° f stirring occasionally to keep the temperature equal top to bottom.

Once at 90° F stir in rennet using a top to bottom motion. 

Allow to sit for 45 minutes to achieve a clean break.

Using a long whisk break the curd up into pea sized pieces stirring for 30 minutes.

Stir gently while raising the heat to 120° F over a thirty minute period.

Once at 120° F stir curds for another 30 minutes.

Drain heated whey into a pot with a prepared mold lined with butter muslin in it and place the combined curd into the mold, in the whey.

Place the follower on the mold and press with 10 pounds for 5 minutes under the warm whey.  Flip the cheese in the mold and  press for 10 minutes at 10 pounds.  Flip the cheese once more and press for 20 minutes at 10 pounds.

Remove the mold from the whey, redress and flip cheese in the mold and place on press at 50 pounds for two hours, flip again and then three hours.  Once more for 8 hours.

Remove the cheese from the mold and flip, pressing naked over night at 50 pounds.

Remove from the  mold and place in 18% brine @ 54° F for 6 hours, flipping after 3 hours.

Remove from brine and dry.

Place on a mat at  60-65° F for 3 days to allow it to dry.  Flip every 12 hours.

Place in cave for 2 weeks wiping with brine daily to defeat any mold growth and help develop the rind.

I used a mixture of 1/3 cup white wine and 2/3 cups 18% brine in a spray bottle misting the exposed surfaces and then wiping the excess off with a paper towel.

Remove from cave and place on mat at 80° F for 36 hours while wiping with the brine and flipping it every 12 hours.  Cheese should swell over this period as PS develops.

Move to the cave @ 54° F and 85% RH.  If mold develops wipe with a white wine/brine solution to clean.

Turn weekly and age for 120 days (Swiss AOC) and up to 18 months.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 14, 2015, 09:06:38 PM
Here's a great tip.  If you are going to buy PH milk from Albertson's, now Hagen's here, choose the one on the bottom shelf with the "Shopper's Value" label.  It makes much better cheese than the higher priced milk whether it's 2% or whole milk.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 14, 2015, 09:11:43 PM
Okay, I forgot to take a lot of pictures of the make but I had to stir two pots of milk so give me a break.  When pressing under the whey I simply submerged the filled mold under the hot whey in a pot and put a 10 pound weight on it.  Rather than redress I just turned the entire mold over and sat it on its follower and put the weight on the bottom of the mold.  Works great!!  After all of that nonsense I finally made it to the Sturdypress where I used a 10 pound weight to apply 50 pounds of pressure to the mold.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 14, 2015, 09:17:29 PM
Okay, so you do the two hours, three hour, do a shot, 8 hours, and finally you take off the butter muslin and press naked overnight.  In the morning you finally get to see your finished knit. The weight is to give you an idea of how big this cheese is.  After pressing it's still 4+ inches thick.  Houston, we have nubbins!!!
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 14, 2015, 09:20:09 PM
Next step is straight into the brine.  Now I like to re-use things that are no longer useful, figure that will be me one day, so when the wife tried to throw out the old tupperware cake dish, with cover, I grabbed the cake cover half and use it to brine my cheeses.  It's dishwasher safe and the perfect size.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 14, 2015, 09:22:24 PM
Well 6 hours later and this bad boy is out of the brine and wiped dry. 
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 14, 2015, 09:26:21 PM
It now has to sit in a 65° F room for three days being turned every 12 hours.  Here's a good tip.  If you want to keep your cheese off of the table to dry then take the follower from the mold you used on the cheese and invert it to use as a stand for your cheese.  Wrapping it in butter muslin will keep any unwanted visitors from getting to the cheese. So here it sits for the next three days.  More to follow!
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: OzzieCheese on March 14, 2015, 09:33:51 PM
Wish i could award two cheeses at once. Here isone though. That is one goooood cheese. 8 gallon makes are bit out of my equipment level at the moment wow that is over 16 litres.  :o
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 14, 2015, 09:39:29 PM
Thanks a million Mal!  Just hope this one blows up and makes all of those little defects the Swiss hate so much, HOLES!!!!
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: shaneb on March 14, 2015, 09:44:26 PM
Very nice. A cheese from me also.

Shane
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 14, 2015, 10:19:35 PM
Thank you Shane!!
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: JeffHamm on March 16, 2015, 07:29:33 AM
A cheese to you Al for a nice looking Swiss there.  Looking forward to seeing how the swelling goes. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 16, 2015, 01:15:48 PM
You and me both Jeff!  I'd love to have some great holes in this but as long as the flavor comes out right I'll be happy! ;D
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: H-K-J on March 16, 2015, 03:38:03 PM
Yes sir Al AC4U, I hope you get those nasty holes in this one ;D
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 16, 2015, 04:28:25 PM
Thanks buddy!  Using a different procedure this time so we'll see. ;)
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Alpkäserei on March 16, 2015, 05:10:06 PM
Looking good Al, glad I could be of help to you.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 16, 2015, 06:26:13 PM
Thanks Alp.  After reading your posts and notes it occurred to me that I have actually been leaving steps out.  They are in there now, along with the right ingredients.  ;)
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 18, 2015, 01:07:21 AM
Okay, this one is in the cave being washed every day for the next two weeks.  Using a brine/white wine wash.  One part white wine to 2 parts 18% brine.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: shaneb on March 18, 2015, 01:23:03 AM
Looks great Al. Not sure if I've already given you a cheese for this one or not, but have another anyway.  :) What are you applying the wash with?

Thanks.

Shane
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 18, 2015, 01:56:14 AM
I use spray bottles Shane.  I mist the entire cheese and then go over it with a paper towel.  Works great but uses a lot of paper towels. LOL  The surface is quite rigid already so it's quite easy to wipe.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: shaneb on March 18, 2015, 02:00:25 AM
Sounds good. I might try that next time.

Shane
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 18, 2015, 02:02:23 AM
I started when I did the rind washed Epoisses and had to wash then with cognac.  I use a brush when I'm trying to achieve a schmier but if I'm just doing mold prevention I like to mist them.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Alpkäserei on March 18, 2015, 02:29:15 AM
Looking good Al

I don't really have anything to say, just saw my number of posts was a very unfortunate number. We can't be having that!
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 18, 2015, 01:05:20 PM
Yeah, I better change your number of cheeses too!  AC4U for all of your help!!
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: LoftyNotions on March 18, 2015, 07:08:39 PM
Looking good, Al. AC4U. Did you feel like a plate spinner at the circus stirring 2 pots at once? ;)

One of these is on my list for the near future.

Larry
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 18, 2015, 07:35:13 PM
Thanks Larry! Hopefully this recipe will be the one that turns out the emmentaler with holes! LOL  It will be some time before we find that out though. ;D
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: qdog1955 on March 18, 2015, 07:50:10 PM
Al-----curious as to the ratio of whole milk to 2% milk----how did you arrive at that mix and why? I have seen different recipes, using different percentages ----but never a why.
Qdog
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 18, 2015, 08:50:05 PM
The Swiss remove 50% of the fat content from their milk.  2% milk in the U.S. is 35% fat content so I figured the 6 of the 2% and 2 gallons of the whole milk would get me pretty close to the 50% the Swiss use.  I've seen recipes that call for the opposite of what I did, that is 6 gallons of whole milk and 2 gallons of 2% but that is too much fat for emmental.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on March 18, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Alp uses whole milk in his recipe...
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 18, 2015, 09:22:42 PM
Alp doesn't make emmental.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on March 18, 2015, 09:35:56 PM
Well, he made a recipe for it a while back.

https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,11069.0.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,11069.0.html)

Or wait he never actually explicitly stated...

Damn.

Okay, then.

I guess I'll make a different cheese this week? Hrm.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 18, 2015, 11:58:44 PM
Trust me Stinky I did the research.  They use milk with a 50% reduced fat content for emmentaler in Switzerland. ;)  Ask Alp.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on March 19, 2015, 12:32:41 AM
"Emmentaler Cheese is a whole cow's milk cheese. Although once produced only in Switzerland, the name is not protected so France and Germany are both big producers of this Swiss like cheese. The paste of this cheese is pale and buttery witrested in cooking with it, Emmentaler is a wonderful melting cheese. It is considered a pillar of fondue making; it is also wonderful in sandwiches and sauces. If you are looking for a specific wine pairing, try Jura Blanc, but don't be a fraid to experiment. This cheese was made to be enjoyed with a glass of wine so try it with your favorite and it will probably be a wonderful combination."

http://www.french-at-a-touch.com/Gourmet/Cheese/emmentaler_swiss.htm (http://www.french-at-a-touch.com/Gourmet/Cheese/emmentaler_swiss.htm)

I believe you, I'm just going to have to make another type of cheese tomorrow. :/ Maybe one that can be waxed for sure so I have room for an Emmental next week? Hm. What would be the consequences of whole milk? From my sources it looks like it can be done with whole milk?
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on March 19, 2015, 12:36:08 AM
Also in this (https://books.google.com/books?id=EhXobHylIQAC&pg=RA1-PA56&lpg=RA1-PA56&dq=emmental+whole+milk&source=bl&ots=yqJzmXaf2T&sig=TI59uUhQ5jGFzUhFFlE-nBrfYHA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1RgKVZCoI4jooASH34CADA&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=emmental&f=false) Bulletin of the USDA, it doesn't specifically state anything about the milk for Emmental, but says that "Swiss" cheese is, in contrast to Emmental, made from half skimmed milk, which to me implies that it's whole milk.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: shaneb on March 19, 2015, 12:38:28 AM
When they say "whole cows milk" maybe they just mean it is cows milk, not a mix of goat, sheep, whatever. Not that they mean it's full fat.

Shane
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on March 19, 2015, 12:47:04 AM
This is true... although I would guess "all cow's milk" would be more typically used there. Who knows.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 19, 2015, 01:33:30 AM
Quote from: Stinky on March 19, 2015, 12:36:08 AM
Also in this (https://books.google.com/books?id=EhXobHylIQAC&pg=RA1-PA56&lpg=RA1-PA56&dq=emmental+whole+milk&source=bl&ots=yqJzmXaf2T&sig=TI59uUhQ5jGFzUhFFlE-nBrfYHA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1RgKVZCoI4jooASH34CADA&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=emmental&f=false) Bulletin of the USDA, it doesn't specifically state anything about the milk for Emmental, but says that "Swiss" cheese is, in contrast to Emmental, made from half skimmed milk, which to me implies that it's whole milk.

Since when is "skimmed milk" whole milk.  Whole milk means nothing has been removed.  Skimmed means they took the cream, and fat solids, out.  BTW  Emmental is NOT made in the U.S.   To discuss this cheese review the AOC from Switzerland.  It gives the accepted recipe and aging for this to be called emmentaler.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: qdog1955 on March 19, 2015, 08:05:09 AM
Al----sorry, didn't mean to cause any controversy----we all know there are lot's of discrepancies in various recipes and we all should know that American terminology and practices aren't always correct. I would think the Swiss have a pretty good handle on how to make an Emmental.
  The main point I was curious about-----I'm pretty sure the Swiss aren't using a 2% cow-----are they skimming the cream off the top to get to that percentage of fat they are looking for? And how do they know when they've reached that point?
  This has a direct bearing on when I am using raw Jersey, and that definitely has to much fat for some cheese I make, and how to go about lowering the fat content without wasting any product.
Qdog
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 19, 2015, 01:06:03 PM
No problem Qdog, from what I have read they skim the cream off of the milk.  Alp tells me that the percentage they shoot for is 50% so that's what I based my recipe on.  You're certainly right about the recipes.  I've seen plenty that call for whole milk to make emmental and parm however I wouldn't use it for either. 
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on March 19, 2015, 02:16:26 PM
Quote from: qdog1955 on March 19, 2015, 08:05:09 AM
Al----sorry, didn't mean to cause any controversy----we all know there are lot's of discrepancies in various recipes and we all should know that American terminology and practices aren't always correct. I would think the Swiss have a pretty good handle on how to make an Emmental.
  The main point I was curious about-----I'm pretty sure the Swiss aren't using a 2% cow-----are they skimming the cream off the top to get to that percentage of fat they are looking for? And how do they know when they've reached that point?
  This has a direct bearing on when I am using raw Jersey, and that definitely has to much fat for some cheese I make, and how to go about lowering the fat content without wasting any product.
Qdog

Someone probably measured how much fat is gotten off by skimming... it's definitely not all of it.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: awakephd on March 19, 2015, 06:22:15 PM
FWIW, I think if you use whole milk in a parm-type style, you are heading more towards a Romano -- ??
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 20, 2015, 04:38:45 PM
Not sure Andy as I've never looked at the recipe for the romano but I believe, I could be totally wrong, that the long aging cheeses need the fat restricted as it tends to turn rancid if aged too long.  That's why the fresh cheeses, such as brie and camembert can be made with triple cream.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Alpkäserei on March 20, 2015, 04:58:07 PM
OK here's the scoop on fat content,

In Switzerland, butter making is/was very important.
In fact, Alpine cheese ultimately descend from butter making, believe it or not.

In the Middle Ages, it was more important to make butter than to make cheese -this is cultured butter that can be stored and transported without turning rancid

So then, cheese was made out of part of the milk, and from the skim left over from butter making -which still has all the protein.
As time went on, cheese became more important and a traded commodity, so more milk was used just to make cheese, but butter is still made in large quantities.

So the part skim milk used in Swiss cheeses has more to do with the historical connection with butter making than anything else.
A lot of alpine cheeses today are made with full fat milk or mostly full fat, just because it is not as practical today to try to make and store a lot of butter when it can be had for cheaper from the valley dairies.

But things like Emmentaler, which is made in lower elevations, continue to be made with part skim because butter is produced, and also because it's part of the character of the cheese. A full fat cheese has a different texture than a part skim cheese.

If you look at the label for many US made Swiss-style cheeses, even these will say part skim milk.

For an Emmentaler, you don't really want the fat.
Usually if you want a light, pliable, flexible texture like what is desired in an Emmentaler you want to skim 1/3 to 1/2 the fat off

Unfortunately for me, the government in Indiana does not approve of the method used in Switzerland to let milk sit in shallow pans and then manually separate the cream, I have to use a mechanical separator.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 20, 2015, 05:46:54 PM
Thank you for clearing that up Alp.  As usual, your knowledge of alpine cheese is invaluable to us.  AC4U for being a fountain of knowledge! ;D  Thinking about doing another Mutschli buddy!  Busy this weekend but may go for an 8 gallon make next weekend.  Or maybe a Raclette. The emmental is coming along great.  With the white wine/brine wash it has that slight dusting of white you get on a good rind and nothing else.  I just mist it on with a spray bottle every evening and wipe it off with a paper towel. ;D
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 21, 2015, 06:49:33 PM
One week down in the cave and one to go.  Wiped it down and flipped it this morning.  Still looking great.  Not a hint of mold on it and a slight rind developing beautifully.  Threw it onto the digital scale to check it's weight and got 6.14 pounds. Should be ready to inflate next week. LOL
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Danbo on March 21, 2015, 08:25:50 PM
That's a beauty!! A cheese for you... :-)
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 21, 2015, 08:39:29 PM
Thanks Danbo!  The wife picked me up a new gadget today.  I love gadgets.  Only $15.00 from Walmart and it weighs in kilos/grams or pounds/ounces and dry and wet weights.  Weighs up to 11 pounds so it will do great for my cheeses.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: OzzieCheese on March 22, 2015, 06:56:46 AM
Oh you lucky man !!  It great when the wife understands the need for gadgets...
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Danbo on March 22, 2015, 12:25:06 PM
Loooove gadgets! :-)
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: amiriliano on March 23, 2015, 02:23:30 AM
Al that looks amazing. Another C4U
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 23, 2015, 01:03:07 PM
Thanks guys.  To be totally honest the wife had bought herself one of the scales the week before, huge gadget freak, and when I found it I had her get me one. LOL
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 26, 2015, 01:18:10 AM
Washed and flipped this tonight and the smell is incredible.  Also think I may have found the perfect item to create the 80-85° atmosphere needed to get the little bugs running around and making fart bubbles in my cheese.  This thing turns itself on and off and is available at my local ACE Hardware for about $28.00.  Perfect for the little room under my stairs. ;D
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on March 26, 2015, 03:48:05 AM
I'm seeing bulgies!
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: OzzieCheese on March 26, 2015, 04:24:18 AM
@AL... Now that is a 'swell' lookin' cheese - Harar! I made a funny ...  well Ok ! not really.  But it does look good

-- Mal 
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 26, 2015, 01:07:51 PM
I should have the heated space set up and running tomorrow so it can, hopefully, start its month long swelling campaign. ::)
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Danbo on March 26, 2015, 01:21:23 PM
That's going to be exciting! My Jarlsbergs have been in the warm phase for 14 days soon. I can't see much swelling yet but U can smell them through the vacuum packs.


Your Emmentaler look really good - nice rind!


:-) Danbo
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 26, 2015, 07:03:50 PM
Thanks guys.  As I said before, I have high hopes for this one.  I've done everything I feel I needed to to get a great emmentaler.  The color, translucense, and smell are all there.   8)
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 28, 2015, 02:33:24 PM
Well I couldn't get the heater I wanted but did get one.  I set it up and 24 hours after being at 80° the top had crowned by 1/4 inch.  I've flipped it over and we'll see if I get more swelling tomorrow on the flip side.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 28, 2015, 06:43:43 PM
Here's the cheese after 24 hours at 80°.  First shot is prior to heating it to 80°.  It's even swelling on the bottom.  God knows how it will look in a month!! ;D
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on March 28, 2015, 06:45:18 PM
Oo, nice!

Iii'm thinking that if Alp's recipe doesn't work for me next week I'm going to try yours.

If I read correctly you had no ripening time?
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 28, 2015, 06:51:26 PM
Not true, as I mixed the cultures into a half jug of the milk before heating the ripening time was the entire time it took to heat up.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on March 28, 2015, 06:52:56 PM
Okay. :)
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 28, 2015, 06:59:15 PM
The ripening time at 80° may well be shortened however, if this thing keeps blowing up.  :o
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on March 28, 2015, 07:02:55 PM
To make sure it doesn't blow up?
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 28, 2015, 07:31:32 PM
Well at this rate it will look like a basketball in a month.  Keep in mind this cheese weighs 6 pounds and is 8" x 4".  It's REALLY getting bigger. LOL
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on March 28, 2015, 07:57:57 PM
Also, is that the unknown neon yellow mold on the outside?
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 28, 2015, 08:01:19 PM
Camera's on it's last leg. LOL
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on March 28, 2015, 08:05:59 PM
I'm just seeing a ton of yellow patches.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 28, 2015, 08:11:52 PM
Yeah, it also has a tendency to put in vertical lines at times.  One of the wife old cameras I use because it's easy to pull the SD card and download it.  Trust me, there is NO neon yellow mold on this cheese.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on March 28, 2015, 08:23:25 PM
Quote from: Al Lewis on March 28, 2015, 08:11:52 PM
Yeah, it also has a tendency to put in vertical lines at times.  One of the wife old cameras I use because it's easy to pull the SD card and download it.  Trust me, there is NO neon yellow mold on this cheese.

Am I the only one who's seeing this?
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: H-K-J on March 28, 2015, 09:18:36 PM
You definitely deserve a huge cheese AL (http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/images/smilies/smilie_thumbsup.gif)
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on March 28, 2015, 10:54:57 PM
Quote from: Stinky on March 28, 2015, 08:23:25 PM
Am I the only one who's seeing this?

No, everyone sees it, but as Al says its a camera artifact.
If you look at the top picture there are no signs of the spots but the bottom picture taken several frames later has them.
They are probably the sensor heating up and becoming noisy. If you set the camera up and took a shot every 30 seconds you would probably see them growing.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Alpkäserei on March 29, 2015, 03:31:51 AM
Stinky,

This recipe is largely the result of Me and Al working out and trobleshooting my recipe which is taken from very large cheeses (I make my Emmentaler in 80 to 100 gallon batches...) and figuring out how to make it work for a small at home make. For many cheeses this is simple, for Emmentaler it is anything but.

So I recommend using Al's recipe. SOme time I'll go back to my small batch Emmentaler post and edit it with what we have worked out here.

A little insight for the rest of the world, me and Al worked on the problem of not swelling, and for my part I focussed primarily on the issues of over acidification and over salinization, so in simple terms we worked out the details to give the Thermophilic cultures less time to drop the pH of the cheese, and put the cheese into the brine for a very minimal amount of time to ensure PS could thrive, which it has.

Perhaps Al can give some more insight into his side of things -it's his cheese after all, I don't know anything beyond out conversations before the make.

But I must admit, my failure to convey an Emmentaler recipe that works well for small batches had been bothering me. So Al's success, for me, feels like a major victory. I think now I understand the issues you will face with a small cheese.

Al,

80 degrees seems a little plenty, I like between 70 and 75 myself. I'd be afraid it would swell so fast it cracks, or of the rind getting out of hand, at that temperature.

But hey, great job, I couldn't be happier to see this success!
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on March 29, 2015, 04:07:42 AM
My Emmentalish took around 30 hours in the press to get to a low enough pH.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 29, 2015, 03:13:15 PM
Well Alp you hit the nail right on the head.  I took the cheese out and back to room temperature this morning for fear of it splitting open.  What you see is the result of 36 hours at 80°.  It certainly got the little fellows moving.  Hopefully they will continue their work at the lower temperature but a little slower.  Any bets on whether I have holes in my Emmental? LOL  Alp I can't thank you enough for your help on this one buddy.  I think that, between us, we may have cracked the secret to small batch Emmentals.  After two weeks in the cave allow to sit at 75-80° for two-four weeks. That period may change based on further observation. BTW Your idea of mixing the cultures with the milk while cold seems to have worked out a treat as well. :o  Stinky, there is NO neon yellow mold growth.  If you look at the sides you'll see slightly darker patches.  The camera picks those up as neon yellow when the flash bounces off of them.  Crappy camera, no mold.  LOL
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 29, 2015, 03:19:55 PM
Thinking of sitting this on an open mold so only the edge supports it and the bulging center can hang down to see if the top will swell as much.  Any thoughts Alp?
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on March 29, 2015, 03:21:00 PM
Have you flipped it at all?
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 29, 2015, 03:23:29 PM
Yes, about every 12 hours.  I've suspended it over a plastic funnel, of all things, and will give it a try at 75° for the next 8 hours.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Danbo on March 29, 2015, 08:30:20 PM
Whaaaaaaaaat?????  :o


Either you are good at Photoshopping or you are on your way to have made a really really impressive Emmentaler. I have never seen anything like it in that size!


I can only envy you - and I really want to learn to make such a monster.


If I could give you a giant cheese I would!


WOW!


:-) Danbo
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on March 29, 2015, 08:40:19 PM
You could suspend it in midair...  ;)
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 29, 2015, 09:00:12 PM
Suspension thing didn't work.  Bad idea. LOL  Back to the normal way. :'(
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 29, 2015, 09:02:53 PM
Quote from: Danbo on March 29, 2015, 08:30:20 PM
Whaaaaaaaaat?????  :o
Either you are good at Photoshopping or you are on your way to have made a really really impressive Emmentaler. I have never seen anything like it in that size!
I can only envy you - and I really want to learn to make such a monster.
:-) Danbo

The recipe is at the beginning of the thread Danbo.  Just make sure that you put it into a room, or container, at 75-80° F after the two weeks in the cave.  I wouldn't keep it there for more than 2 days and then back to 70-72°.  Otherwise it will split on you.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on March 29, 2015, 09:05:39 PM
Quote from: Al Lewis on March 29, 2015, 09:00:12 PM
Suspension thing didn't work.  Bad idea. LOL  Back to the normal way. :'(

Have you tried it before?  :D
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on March 29, 2015, 09:07:42 PM
Yeah, this morning,  Not a good idea.  The center tends to sink.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: LoftyNotions on March 30, 2015, 09:25:02 PM
Well it's no wonder tying it didn't work! You used a Star of David instead of a Swiss Cross suspension.  ;)

Larry
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Alpkäserei on March 31, 2015, 12:03:17 AM
I hadn't considered the idea of basketball cheese (hey it's march in Indiana, so it's all about basketball right now)

But I suppose that's a good problem to have!
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on March 31, 2015, 05:36:01 AM
What about hanging it in a nylon mesh bag like the ones onions come in? You could make a little hammock for it.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on April 01, 2015, 02:48:10 PM
It would sag through the cord like mozzarella does when being aged for Provolone.  However with the weight of this cheese, 6.14 pounds, it would just cut itself into pieces.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on April 01, 2015, 07:20:08 PM
This thing is actually getting bigger.  Have to take a picture when I get home. :o  BTW  It smells awesome!!!  ^-^
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on April 01, 2015, 07:55:12 PM
I'd move it into cold storage, then, rather than risk it exploding?
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on April 01, 2015, 08:15:29 PM
It will be going in soon.  ;D
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Danbo on April 01, 2015, 09:23:54 PM
Your growing cheese reminds me of the movie/musical "The Little Shop of Horrors"... Feed me Seymore... Feed me...
;-)
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on April 01, 2015, 09:43:09 PM
Well the only thing I'm feeding this thing is heat. LOL  It soaks it up like a sponge. :o
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on April 02, 2015, 01:50:20 PM
'm going to make this today. Hoping.....
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on April 02, 2015, 02:40:43 PM
I actually had a blowout on this last night.  One of the bubbles burst through the top so it's in the cave now aging.  I would not keep one of these at 80° F for more than 36 hours.  I'll change the recipe to reflect that.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on April 03, 2015, 01:32:46 AM
Okay, this thing is in the cave and getting a regular, heavy, misting of my wine/brine wash to keep molds out and to soften the exterior.  One side has hardened slightly and is showing signs of cracking so I'm doing a schmier using a stiff brush and the wash.  Working great so far!
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on April 18, 2015, 08:26:18 PM
Just a quick update.  This thing is still in the cave getting a weekly washing of my stock white wine/brine wash.  Smells great!!
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: H-K-J on April 18, 2015, 08:39:35 PM
That looks fantastic Al
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on April 18, 2015, 08:40:32 PM
Thanks buddy!!  Getting really hard not to cut into it but it does have to age.  >:D
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: LoftyNotions on April 18, 2015, 08:44:04 PM
Al,

If I'm counting right, this cheese was at room temp or above (80+) for 6 days? How big was the hull breach?  ;)

Looking good.

Larry
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on April 18, 2015, 08:45:58 PM
Actually I believe it was about 48 hours.  It did actually pop on one side but nothing drastic. LOL
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Danbo on April 18, 2015, 09:03:53 PM
I wish that it was one of mine - what a fantastic looking cheese! AC4U
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on April 18, 2015, 09:45:43 PM
Thanks Danbo.  Hey, we found the secret now so they should all look like this. ;)
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: OzzieCheese on April 19, 2015, 01:06:17 AM
A great lookin cheese there Al.. yet another I have to add to my list to do

A cheese of course

-- Mal
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on April 25, 2015, 11:20:43 PM
Times being what they are I found myself with a cave full of cheeses that needed to be waxed or vacuum packed.  They needed that because I wanted to make some washed and bloomy rind cheeses and trying to do mold control would be a nightmare.  For that reason I decided to cut and vacuum pack my emmentaler.  Glad I did as this thing has the greatest sweet nutty "swiss" taste I've ever done. And YES Houston we have eyes!!!  Almost a lacy swiss.  Be doing another of these down the road but I need some Stilton and maybe some Epoisses and some more Vacherin Mont D'Ors.  Natural rinds don't stand a chance against those. LOL  This one will just get tons better with 3 more months of age.  Hell, it's really good now.  A definite success!!  Thanks for all of the help Alp!!  Here's the cheese porn H-K-J!!!
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Kern on April 26, 2015, 12:07:20 AM
Whoa!  An Emmental jumped up a couple of notches on my list today.  Good job, Al.  AC4U.  BTW, I'm only an hour's drive away if you need to consume some of those cheeses you're clearing out for the washed and bloomies.  8)

Kern
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: shaneb on April 26, 2015, 12:30:02 AM
Wow! Very nice Al. Have another cheese from me.

Shane
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: LoftyNotions on April 26, 2015, 03:39:46 AM
Nice, Al. Another C4U. I just moved mine out to room temperature a couple days ago. It's nice to see that holes are possible.

Larry
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on April 26, 2015, 04:27:27 AM
Quote from: LoftyNotions on April 26, 2015, 03:39:46 AM
Nice, Al. Another C4U. I just moved mine out to room temperature a couple days ago. It's nice to see that holes are possible.

Larry

Is it swelling?
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: H-K-J on April 26, 2015, 03:30:29 PM
NICE!!! I am glad to see that eyes are possible 8)
AC4U Al, nicely done ;D
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Danbo on April 26, 2015, 03:53:51 PM
Holey moly! It deserves a cheese for all those holes... :)
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on April 26, 2015, 03:55:42 PM
Thanks guys!! Yes it definitely has holes.  Texture still a bit soft but that will age out of it I'm sure.  Best part is that sweet nutty Emmentaler taste.  Looking forward to it intensifying. Definitely feel that the 80-85° room for 48 hours did the trick.  We need to start building "warm boxes" to control the warm cycles on these cheeses. ;D
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on April 26, 2015, 04:51:47 PM
This excites me for mine. It's getting huuuuuge.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on April 26, 2015, 05:30:39 PM
Think I may buy a cabinet to place this heater in.  It could serve double duty as the first 24 hours that salami is packed it has to be in an 85° F room for the Bactoferm to kick in.
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Flound on April 27, 2015, 12:21:54 AM
Serious C4U. Well done.

I would love to make a fondue out of some of that....
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: OzzieCheese on April 27, 2015, 02:27:30 AM
Your cheese is really the icon of Cheeses-  wonderful eyes.  very nice !!  Cheese for your efforts.

-- Mal


Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Al Lewis on April 27, 2015, 02:29:18 AM
Thanks guys!! ;D
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: Stinky on August 03, 2015, 06:25:33 PM
Have you tried it since the 4 month mark?
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: amiriliano on August 03, 2015, 11:23:18 PM
I have propionic envy!

Nice job!

AC4U
Title: Re: Did a 7 Pound Emmental
Post by: olikli on September 27, 2015, 05:37:36 PM
Great cheese. I hope that one day I will be able to make this too.

Coming back to the fat content, there is one thing I don't quite get. Alp stated that Swiss Emmental is made with partly skimmed milk, but it has a fat content of 45% which classifies it as a full fat cheese. Also the official Swiss Cheese website states it is full fat: http://www.schweizerkaese.ch/kaesesortiment/emmentaler-aop.html (http://www.schweizerkaese.ch/kaesesortiment/emmentaler-aop.html)

I have to admit that I am confused.