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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Blue Mold (Penicillium roqueforti) Ripened => Topic started by: awakephd on March 23, 2015, 06:29:37 PM

Title: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: awakephd on March 23, 2015, 06:29:37 PM
Inspired by LoftyNotions (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13844.0.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13844.0.html)), I decided to try a Gorgonzola picante. I mostly followed the make on the New England Cheesemaking website (http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/pg/31-Gorgonzola-Classic-Picante.html (http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/pg/31-Gorgonzola-Classic-Picante.html)) with a couple of variations:

Day 1 (evening):

2 gallons whole milk (P&H)
1/8 tsp CaCl (crystals, dissolved in ~3 Tbs. water)
1/8 tsp MA011
1/16 tsp MD089
1/32 tsp TA061
1/32 tsp P. Rocq. (PS strain)
1/4 tsp rennet

Warm milk; add cultures at 80°; warm to 88° and hold for 30 minutes to ripen
Add CaCl, wait 5 minutes
Add rennet, wait 60 minutes for firm set
Cut into 1/2" to 3/4" cubes. Rest 5-10 minutes
Stir, gently at first, for ~1 hour, maintaining 88°
Rest 10 minutes; drain through cheesecloth
Hang in cheescloth to drain overnight. Target pH = 4.6 - 4.8 (actual pH = 4.89 when the cheese was assembled)
Cut into 1" cubes; cover and set aside.

Day 2 (midday):

2 gallons whole milk (P&H)
1/8 tsp CaCl (crystals, dissolved in ~3 Tbs. water)
1/8+ tsp MA011
1/16+ tsp MD089
1/32+ tsp TA061
1/4 tsp rennet

note: almost the same as day 1, but slight increase in cultures and no PR

Warm milk; add cultures at 80°; warm to 88° and hold for 30 minutes to ripen
Add CaCl, wait 5 minutes
Add rennet, wait 60 minutes for firm set
Cut into 1/2" to 3/4" cubes. Rest 5-10 minutes
Stir intermittently, gently at first, for 1-2 hours, maintaining 88°  (actual = 1 hour); target pH = 5.9 (actual = 5.92)
Rest 10 minutes; drain through cheesecloth
Cut into 1/2" cubes

In large mold with no cheesecloth, assemble the cheese with the second-day curds on the bottom, sides, and top, and the first-day curds in the middle. I used approximately 1/4 of the curd on top and bottom and 1/2 on the sides. Lightly press (I used 4 lbs.) and flip regularly until the following evening; the cheese was well consolidated but still had many gaps in the structure. Begin salting to 4% (which worked out to 74 grams) over three days -- use 50% of the salt the first day, 30% the second day, and 20% the final day; each day, put half of the salt on the top; wait 12 hours, then flip and put the other half of the salt.

Pictures below show the process:



Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: awakephd on March 23, 2015, 06:34:24 PM
First picture below: 10 days later, the sides have gotten quite blue, with some geo underneath. I must have done something wrong, since I thought the outside of Gorgonzola stayed mostly clear of blue. Interestingly, there is not a speck of blue on the top or bottom -- perhaps only adding salt to the top and bottom accounts for this.

Second picture below: I'm not sure I should have done this, but I decided to scrape much of the blue/geo off the sides -- wanting to avoid the gooey texture I got with my last (and only previous) blue, and also wanting to close up the holes a bit.
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: Al Lewis on March 23, 2015, 06:59:11 PM
Looking good Andy!! ;)
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: Stinky on March 23, 2015, 07:38:23 PM
Yes, it does look quite nice! :D Keep it up.
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: LoftyNotions on March 25, 2015, 10:00:50 PM
Looking good, Andy. AC4U.

I wouldn't worry about the blue on the outside. My last one had quite a bit of blue and Geo.

It'll be interesting to see the blueing pattern with your cuboid milling. :) Should be a nice modernist blue. A Picasso, maybe...

Nice to see someone else giving this a go.

Larry
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: Danbo on March 25, 2015, 10:07:05 PM
I will follow this thread with great interest. The "Picante" is really nice! :-)
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: awakephd on April 11, 2015, 03:24:28 PM
Update - some pictures at four weeks old. I pierced it at 2 weeks, and again after taking these pictures. As you can see from the core sample, it has some decent blue veining inside; a nice creamy texture; and a pretty good taste. However, it was smelling pretty ammonia-ish, so I'm not sure if I should transfer it to the cold fridge -- ??
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: LoftyNotions on April 11, 2015, 03:38:12 PM
Nice, Andy. Are you storing it in a small container? I think that has contributed to ammonia smells on several of my moldy cheeses. Make sure you air it out for about 1/2 hour to an hour each day. This is at about 4 weeks? How much longer do you plan on aging before cutting it? Cooler temperatures wouldn't hurt.

Larry
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: awakephd on April 11, 2015, 04:27:34 PM
I was thinking I need at least two more weeks. Yes, it is in a ripening container, and I haven't been airing it out -- but I will start doing that. The cold fridge is rather full at the moment with a couple of bulky items, so it will be a couple of days before I can move it there.
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: LoftyNotions on April 11, 2015, 04:55:25 PM
Hey Andy,

Just airing it out should help a lot.

Take it out of the container while it airs.

Quotehttps://www.health.ny.gov/.../amm...
New York State Department of Health
Anhydrous ammonia gas is lighter than air and will rise, so that generally it dissipates and does not settle in low-lying areas. However, in the presence of moisture (such as high relative humidity), the liquefied anhydrous ammonia gas forms vapors that are heavier than air.

Larry
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: awakephd on April 11, 2015, 07:56:57 PM
Okay, I've got it airing out as we speak. Err, type. :)

Based on your experience, would you say 6 weeks is about right for aging? My thought is, after that, to cut it into sections, vacuum bag, and store for further development. Good plan, or ??
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: LoftyNotions on April 11, 2015, 10:05:19 PM
That's exactly what I do with mine, Andy. Almost always at 6 to 7 weeks. They still develop really nice sharpness, even in the bag.

Larry
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: awakephd on April 12, 2015, 01:04:47 AM
I thought that was what I had read, either in your notes or somewhere else on the forum. Right -- two more weeks, and then bag it!
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: Al Lewis on April 12, 2015, 04:03:10 PM
I air my blues out for an hour a day and age them out for 7 weeks.  Things I learned from H-K-J.  That one is looking fantastic.  I can see a delicious tasting in your future. AC4U!! ;D
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: awakephd on April 12, 2015, 08:13:05 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: awakephd on April 26, 2015, 06:37:07 PM
Six-week update: I decided to cut this into 8ths and bag up all but one for further development. Taste is okay -- not as sharp as I would like; hopefully that will develop with additional time.
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: LoftyNotions on April 26, 2015, 07:04:10 PM
Beautiful result, Andy. AC4U.

Don't worry about the sharpness. It'll still develop well in the bag. You'll really see the difference if you make another one soon and unbag one of these when you cut your second one.

Larry
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: Kern on April 26, 2015, 08:32:40 PM
Dr. Awake, your prowess as a cheese maker never ceases to amaze me!  AC4U, my friend.   ^-^
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: Al Lewis on April 26, 2015, 10:34:36 PM
They don't get any better than that Andy!!  AC4U for excellence!! ;D
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: OzzieCheese on April 27, 2015, 02:44:02 AM
Hey Andy... Lookin good from this side of the Pacific.  I now have 2 blue sucesses under my belt and the thing I find wonderful is that they really do seem to look after themselves and once you get over the really gross looking rind - which tastes wonderful BTW - it transports one to very happy place.  the Blues Brothers ride again..  8)

-- Mal
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: awakephd on April 27, 2015, 02:25:40 PM
Thanks all for the cheeses and the encouragement.

I forgot to ask a question -- I was tired and rushed when I posted the pictures -- any thoughts about whether I should keep the bagged 8th's in the regular fridge, or still in the cheese cave?
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: LoftyNotions on April 27, 2015, 06:08:43 PM
Cheese cave as long as you want them sharper. When they're where you want them, put them in the regular frig. I have 5 month olds still in the cave.

Larry
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: awakephd on April 28, 2015, 02:05:43 AM
Thanks, Larry. That confirms what I suspected!
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: H-K-J on April 28, 2015, 03:02:40 PM
Quote from: LoftyNotions on April 27, 2015, 06:08:43 PM
Cheese cave as long as you want them sharper. When they're where you want them, put them in the regular frig. I have 5 month olds still in the cave.

Larry
I have half of my last blue in my cave and it is going on 14 months old :o
I think this thing will be capable of biting you back :P
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: awakephd on April 28, 2015, 04:07:00 PM
Wow, I want to see pictures!
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: 9mmruger on May 01, 2015, 12:13:12 PM
Quote from: OzzieCheese on April 27, 2015, 02:44:02 AM
Hey Andy... Lookin good from this side of the Pacific.  I now have 2 blue sucesses under my belt and the thing I find wonderful is that they really do seem to look after themselves and once you get over the really gross looking rind - which tastes wonderful BTW - it transports one to very happy place.  the Blues Brothers ride again..  8)

-- Mal

I totally agree on the rind taste.  It's wonderful. 
Title: Update: we've turned the corner ...
Post by: awakephd on May 31, 2015, 06:50:30 PM
It has now been 11 weeks since I made this cheese; for the last five weeks, 8ths of cheese have been vacuum-bagged and stored in the cheese "cave."

I'll be honest: up to now, the 2 or 3 8ths that I have eaten have been a bit disappointing. There has been a good bit of flavor, and certainly plenty of blue development visually, but it just hasn't tasted the way I think of when I think of blue cheese -- more bitter and musky than tangy, and heavy on the salt. The latter is not surprising, since the recipe calls for 4% salt!

That has now changed. I pulled another 8th out on a whim yesterday and opened it up. It did not look promising -- even though I stopped the sealer short of a full vacuum, there was still a good bit of liquid in the bag. But I tasted it anyway. And ... whoa! Something has happened since the last time I tried this. Now I'm getting that sort-of-sweet tanginess that I associate with blue cheese. Not super-strong yet, but enough to transform this from "ho-hum" to "yes please!" Perhaps even more flavor development is to come? I look forward to trying another 8th in a few more weeks to see.

The only flaw in the taste now, if it is a flaw, is that it is still seems heavy on the salt, though that is less prominent with the new tangy sweetness. But I'm wondering what would happen if I backed the salt down a tad, say from 4% to 3.5% ...

Bottom line: this just moved from "probably won't make this recipe again" to "most definitely will make again," and I now look forward to experimenting with it to perfect it!

Pictures included, though honestly it really doesn't look much different than it did five weeks ago.
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: LoftyNotions on May 31, 2015, 08:50:56 PM
Well, Andy, today you get a cheese for perseverance. :)

Yep, you'll get a bit of liquid in the bag, and yes, it happens about the time the cheese starts coming into its own. Nothing needs to be done about it. (Well, maybe lick it off your fingers). It will get even sharper as time goes on.

Regarding salt, yes you can back it down to 3.5%, or even down to 3% if you want. You might find that as the cheese ages more, the salt takes even more of a back seat.

One suggestion: Make your second one now, so it'll be partially aged when you run out of this one.

Larry
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: jmason on May 31, 2015, 09:41:00 PM
Looks very nice Andy.
have another cheese
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: awakephd on June 01, 2015, 01:09:41 AM
Thanks for the cheeses! Yes, I have been wanting to get another one under way ... actually, I have a list of cheeses that I really want to get under way. But the schedule has been and will be a bit hectic for a while, so I am having to give careful thought to which cheeses will age properly with the times when they will receive infrequent attention. Mostly that means cheeses that can be vac-bagged sooner rather than later, though I do have some camemberts in the works now.

It may well be the fall before I can make cheeses that need more care during the affinage ... :(
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: John@PC on June 03, 2015, 12:33:08 PM
Another cheese Andy to add to your bulging cheeses-to-posts ratio.  I see no reason why you couldn't back off the salt a bit if that's the only "negative".  I was always wary of vacuum bagging until I realized how much they eliminate maintenance but still allow for flavor development (albeit at a slower pace).  Luv those blues ;D.
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: awakephd on June 03, 2015, 01:29:36 PM
Thanks! Yes, I've fallen in love with the vacuum bagging system. I generally try to establish some rind character before bagging -- for example, I bagged a Montasio not too long ago, but only after 4-5 weeks of developing a good dry rind with a bit of linens.

Of course, my recent 6-gallon Cantal make revealed the limits of my vac-bagging system -- it just barely fit into  an 11" bag, and I don't think I can seal anything larger than that! :(
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: H-K-J on June 05, 2015, 03:06:28 PM
Hey Andy
you can get pleated bags (http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=Ce9uwTblxVe3UE4mKpgPKmICYDIKL4ZoFytHhjs8B-8iv-KgBCAYQASgIYMnW_ovMpIgZoAH0xNr-A8gBB6oEJk_QO1W1-AKBHUoAjBMvTs2VwqJOwvgQ3cF231xqrCx03W4a2tHnwAUFoAYmgAf0uqUBkAcBqAemvhuoB5PCG6gHlMIb2AcB4BKuzsjGgrK-1f8B&sig=AOD64_0MDodONQvHwGlyQntq1eDFLniRzw&ctype=5&clui=18&rct=j&q=&ved=0CIsBEPQO&adurl=http://tracking.deepsearch.adlucent.com/adlucent/Redirector%3Fretailer%3Djardencs%26adl_channel%3Dproductads%26adl_sku%3DFSFSBFEX626-000%26adl_kwid%26adl_adType%3DPLA%26adl_adid%3D55532708770%26adl_device%3Dc%26adl_plaid%3D45349594235%26url%3Dhttp://www.foodsaver.com/bags-and-rolls/choose-by-size/11-inch-bags-and-rolls/foodsaver-11-x-16-expandable-heat-seal-rolls-2-pack/FSFSBFEX626-000.html) that can hold a turkey, you can get a very large cheese in them.
I was having the same prob until my wife brought the pleated bags home 8) (http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/images/smilies/smilie_thumbsup.gif)
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: awakephd on June 05, 2015, 05:41:55 PM
Yes, I remember now hearing about those. I guess then the only problem is that when the cheese is gone, the bag is ...

... wait for it ...

... "depleated."

:)
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: jmason on June 05, 2015, 08:24:57 PM
can we give a thumbs down and take away a cheese for cornball puns? :o
Title: Re: First attempt at Gorgonzola Picante
Post by: awakephd on June 08, 2015, 02:24:58 AM
Only for cheesy jokes.

:)