Hi all,
Looking through the threads in this forum there seems to be a huge variety in what starter cultures are used for cheddar makes. I'm considering making a cheddar in the next couple of weeks, but am unsure what cultures to use. I have the following available in my freezer at the moment.
Meso
MM101
MA16
Flora Danica
CHN22
Thermo
TA61
LH100
DYV17
I'll be using pasteurised unhomogenised milk.
Any suggestions on what to use and in what ratios? The recipes I have don't really suggest what cultures to use.
Thanks in advance.
Shane
Maybe MM101 with a tiny pinch of Ta61? I'm really not sure.
I'm not a huge fan of ST (TA61) in a cheddar. Don't get me wrong, it's good, but not my favorite choice. LD and LH, to me, do improve the taste. Personally, I'm still exploring culture mixes for a cheddar. right now I'm in the following range and hoping for good results:
RA22 (or MA 11)
+
MD 88
+
Flav 54 (a sweeter LH than LH100)
Thanks Guys for your suggestions. At the moment I'd rather not buy any more starters.
Spoons - In what way do you not like TA61? Does it give a bad taste?
Shane
Oh no no, I don't want you to think it tastes bad. It doesn't. It has quite a distinctive taste. Hard to describe, maybe velvety, smooth tang? Actually, give it a try, maybe you'll like and if you don't you can take it as earned experience.
Ahh okay, thanks for the clarification. I might give it a go then. Plenty of time to make more cheddar down the track.
Shane
Shane,
My last cheddar, which was very, very good (and still is -- though it is disappearing fast!), had approximately 3 gallons of milk (actually, 2 gal whole, 1 gal 2%, and 1 pint cream) and used 3/16 tsp MA011 (same as the MA16 you have) plus 1/8 tsp TA061. I didn't have any MD88 at the time; if I had, I would have put a bit of that in as well.
Since FD has the same bacterias as MA011 and MD88, plus one more, I'd be tempted to try FD + TA. I say that, but in fact I've never used FD, and from time to time I've heard that it might be a bit slower in acidifying ... ?
I like Spoons' suggestion of some LH ... may have to try that this weekend, when I am planning on making another cheddar ....
If you love the cheddar you made the last time I would use the exact same recipe. Once I find something that works for me I set it in stone. ;)
I hear you -- if it ain't broke, don't play with the recipe! There are some makes that I have pretty well settled into a fixed recipe, but I've not made that much cheddar, so may still experiment a bit.
Hi Shane. I like my Cheddars with a nice clean sharp taste and this is why I like the MO 030 from Sacco (Green living Australia stocks it). This only has LL and LC cultures in it and therefore produces no CO2 and the texture is a very closed one. The problem I have found with the others especially FD - while a nice culture - CHN22 also - are citrate fermenters and hence produce CO2 which can open the texture especially if the cheese is waxed.
Just my 10 cents worth :)
-- Mal
Thanks Guys. A few choices now, decisions, decisions...... Will have a think about it and will post the results.
Shane
Quote from: awakephd on April 07, 2015, 02:14:55 PM
Shane,
My last cheddar, which was very, very good (and still is -- though it is disappearing fast!), had approximately 3 gallons of milk (actually, 2 gal whole, 1 gal 2%, and 1 pint cream) and used 3/16 tsp MA011 (same as the MA16 you have) plus 1/8 tsp TA061. I didn't have any MD88 at the time; if I had, I would have put a bit of that in as well.
I made a cheddar yesterday using the two cultures you listed above. I'll try and upload the make sheet tomorrow. Everything went very well in the process. It was made with a combination of Mal's recipe (thanks Mal!) and the cheddar recipe from NEC. Below are some early photos. It's still in the press until this evening.
Shane
And now out of the press. 1750f is the weight out of the mould. This was a 12L make. I've attached the make sheet and a photo. I'll attempt to bandage it in the next couple of days.
Shane
Shane, beautiful results -- AC4U! Congratulations on getting such a nice, smooth rind -- how large a make is this, and what was your final pressing weight?
Thanks Andy. I'm very happy with how it looks out of the press. It was a 12L (just over 3 gallons) make with an additional 0.6L of pure cream. I just noticed that the weight got auto corrected. It should say 1750g. The final press weight was 25kg (55lb) for 24hrs.
It's now in the process of drying in anticipation of bandaging.
Shane
@Shane - nice knit - a grand looking cheese. Cloth Bandage and leave it for 12 months - if you can :) You've done the hard work. Looks good. I'm on a cheddar a month plan and by Chrismas will have a rolling stock by then.
A cheese I feel is required :)
-- Mal
Thanks very much Mal. I've been analysing your last make sheet and banding thread for this one. Thanks for providing such detailed information. I will try and be patient to take this one out to 12 months.
I do have one question relating the bandaging. Does a bandaged cheese require the same high humidity as one with a natural rind? I was planning on putting it in its own ripening box, but thought I'd check. My fridge when operating is a tad savage on lowering the humidity. I do have a few fingers and humidity controller in there, but I think the size of the fridge is beyond what my system can control.
Thanks.
Shane
I wouldn't be too concerned with the humidity if you have wrapped it.. From what I've seen you get a gas exchange and very little moisture is lost and over 12 months I don't think you would notice. As long as you have pressed long enough and let air dry you shouldn't get moisture coming out of the cheese. If you use at least 3 layers I also wouldn't be too concerned about the odd patch of mould either. You will get some but 90% of it peels off with the layers. Just as insurance I wipe the surface vinegar - just to knock off any surface mould - but not too wet. If you get mould and you are unhappy with it you can always unwrap the cheese, clean it down and re-do it
-- Mal
Thanks. I'll give it a whirl and see how it goes.
Shane
Shane, what a great looking cheddar. Certainly worth a cheese from me. :)
Kern
Thanks Kern.
Shane
I wrapped the cheese this morning. There were some surface cracks, so I thought I'd better get a move on. I lightly applied cider vinegar to all faces prior to wrapping. The wrapping process seemed quite therapeutic. :)
Below is a photo just prior to me putting in the cave. I hope to age it out to 12 months.
Thanks all for your help
Shane
Shane, I have 4/28/2016 marked on my calendar (and a cheese to you in anticipation).
Thanks very much John. :D
Shane
Excellent !! remenber don't get freaked if you see mould - you will get some cant stop it. I'll send you photos of mine later but tha=ey do get a bit funky looking...
It really is a good hands on exercise...
_ A cheese for yee.
-- Mal
Thanks Mal. I won't be to shocked. I have seen some photos of them. Does the lard dry out to the point where handling is easier?
Shane
The lard is starting to dry out a bit. It makes handling a lot easier. Here is an updated photo.
Shane
Ojh that looks wonderful - A deserved cheese !!
--Mal
Thanks Mal. I'm keen to see how it stands up to the lowish humidity in my cave. If it goes okay I think I'll be doing a lot more bandaged cheddars. :) What other cheeses go okay bandaged?
Shane
Well, anything really... Caerphilly does really well - I've done it once early on but I didn't think it warrented the work for a short ripening process. I've heard that Gouda also works really well, really anything you would wax you could bandage. One thing I might try is Bees wax impregnated cloth but @ $15-20 Kg and the higher handeling temperature might put a stop to that..
-- Mal
Thanks Mal. I'll see how this one progresses, but I found it much easier and cleaner than wax despite lard being involved. The bees wax impregnated cloth sounds interesting, but yeah pretty expensive. How much do you think you'd need for one of your standard cheddars?
Shane
That a bit of an unknown at the moment but seeing as the melting point is relatively low it might be as easy as doing a 'Plaster Cast'. Might see what I can dig up at the markets on the weekend.
-- Mal
Be sure to let us know what you find out.
There are some spots of mould starting. I'm still flipping and rotating twice a day at the moment. See photo below of how it presently looks.
Shane
Here's another photo update. It's looking okay at the moment.
Shane
Lookin Good Shane.. Cheese fridge maintenance day today..
-- Mal
Thanks Mal. Today I'm trying to improve my humidity situation in the cave. It's looking good right now with a botch. I'll have to get a more permanent solution in place though. The ultrasonic foggers that I'm using were wanting to draw a lot more current than I was expecting. The power supply must have been running on current limit as it certainly wasn't rated for how much they really draw.
Good luck with your cleaning.
Shane
Cheese cave maintenance completed. One of my Cheddars looked like all the green mold in the world had hopped on board. Armed with my trusty brush and bottle of vinegar, put paid to that little problem. Nearly time for the June Cheddar :)
-- Mal
Very good Mal. My humidity control is an ongoing task for tomorrow. I thought I had it right, but it's not quite there. I'm sitting at 75% right now, but that's with the fogger and fan running 100% of the time. That's not going to work....
Good luck with your next cheddar. I think my next cheese will be a Butterkäse and then I might try another cheddar. Twelve months is a long wait when you're new to this hobby.
Shane
Hi Shane,
I think the trick is to find another that you like making and do those to distract you from the waiting cheddars. I use the Caerphilly for that and the Malemberts ... and all of a sudden it's 'Cheddar Time'
-- Mal
I have made a couple of Caerphilly and I didn't like either. I'm not sure whether it was my doing though or not. I suspect both were made with the Mad Millie vegetable rennet tablets (I need to check my make sheet). Both cheeses had a very bitter taste. I still do have the last one in the cave which is probably 6 months old. Is it likely to have improved in that time or is that too long for a Caerphilly? It is vacuum packed.
Shane
@Shane - Mate I think the Caerphilly is at its best 3-5 weeks. The Rennet tablets are not good and I haven't used them in years for that reason. If you can get some - calf rennet is the "Gold Standard' but the liquid rennet I use from Green Living is excellent with no bitter effects - CHY-MAXTM Plus from Chr Hansen.
I usually find Caerphilly a very enjoyable, creamy with a slight tang. If you leave it too long it becomes a bit bland. Here is my make
It's a bit of a post but is how make it -
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13984.45.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13984.45.html)
-- Mal
Thanks Mal. I just looked in the cave and I think I must have turfed the Caerphilly. The make record shows I did use the rennet tablets. It was the last cheese where I used it. Since then I've been using Chymax vegetable rennet from Cheeselinks. I also have a bottle of this in my fridge which I haven't used yet. I'm assuming it's calf rennet. The strength is about half of what the veggie rennet is.
http://www.countrybrewer.com.au/products/Traditional-Rennet-%252d-140-IMCU%7B47%7Dml-50ml.html (http://www.countrybrewer.com.au/products/Traditional-Rennet-%252d-140-IMCU%7B47%7Dml-50ml.html)
I guess I'd better give it a go again then.
Thanks for the link to your make.
Shane q
Check out the the IMCU number. They say it's 140 and the one I use is 200 IMCU so if you are using my make sheets you will need to do a bit of math to correct. Example 3 mls of 200 IMCU = 4.28 mls of 140 IMCU 200x3=xtime140 for the ratio = 600/140 = 4.3 (give or take a drop or two). But this all depends on the milk,temp,pH and how you hold your hat! But it's close. :)
-- Mal
Thanks Mal. Yes, I kind of assumed that. The numbers are the same as yours. Have you used calf rennet before? I haven't used it yet. What are the expected differences? Will the calf rennet provide a better overall flavour in the cheese?
I have my humidity control hobbled together, but quite reliable now. My issues were voltage drop over the wire preventing the ultrasonic foggers from running effectively. I'll tidy it up soon and provide photos.
Shane
Finally humidity control is working. I've got it set to 85%, but I suspect it may be a fair bit lower at the bottom of the cave. In in the process of replacing the shelves with timber and will look to improve on the air flow through the cave. Below is an updated photo of the cheddar, plus my humidity control equipment.
Shane
Another photo update. The humidity control has changed a bit since the last photo. The fan was getting too wet in the present position. It has been moved remote to the ultrasonic foggers and the lid from the container has been removed.
I found this thread researching cheddar. I'd love to know how this guy is doing now, coming up on it's first birthday! Any new pics?
Unfortunately it all turned out a bit of a disaster. My cheese cave failed while I was in hospital having surgery and a week long stay (coming into Australian summer). I had to throw everything out. :( I've been stuck in the middle of recovering from surgery/injury and home renovations which will improve my cheese making abilities, but I also now need to buy a new cave before I can start again unfortunately. I'll try this again as soon as I'm back up and running again.
Shane
Oh no I'm sorry to hear that! I hope your recovery and renovations bring you more wonderful cheese experiences in the near future!
Take care!