Hi all,
I'm having horrible luck getting this thread started. I seem to keep killing it. One last attempt.
I did end up attempting a low fat stabilised camembert make. Below is a copy of the make sheet and initial photos. I had leftover curds, so I've attempted a Cambozola as well. The PC was not added to the milk, but situated on later. The majority of the make is based on LoftyNotion's Cambozola make (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14480.0.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14480.0.html)), but with Francois' suggestion of making a stabilised cheese.
This afternoon I've seen the first signs of white fuzz.
Thanks all for your advice.
Camembert early photo.
Cambozola early photo.
Shane
And finally the make sheet.
Shane
They look good Shane!
What was Francois stabilisation method that you mention?
Thanks Bill. Yeah, that kind of got lost in the broken thread. It is half thermo, half meso starter cultures. I'll try and add some more detail to the thread later. Francois was concerned being low fat that they would turn to puddles very quickly if just using meso starters.
Shane
Here are some updated photos of the camembert and Cambozola. In starting to see some blue on the Cambozola, but not a great deal of white fuzz yet on any of the cheeses. This is my first batch where I've sprayed PC. Do you think it's worth spraying then again? I'm on day 10 now.
Thanks.
Shane
Shane, I think I remember that you didn't have G. c. to add to the P. c. It could be that your surface pH is still too low for good P. c. growth, since one of the jobs G. c. does is to raise pH. I have mixed emotions about re-spraying. If you have some white surface growth, I think I'd be tempted to leave it alone for now. I only sprayed mine on 2 consecutive days. Is your humidity high enough?
Larry
Thanks Larry. That is good to know about GC. I'll have to get myself some next time I do an order. The humidity in the ripening box is around 95%.
This morning I'm a bit happier about where things are at, so there is no need for a respray anyway. There is definitely fuzz on the camembert. It is just not as white as what I'm used to at this stage. It has a yellowish tinge, but there are no odours other than a hint of mushroom. I've started patting them down.
The blue is spreading on the Cambozola. The form factor of this cheese is not ideal, but I didn't really know how much in the way of curds I had leftover when choosing a mould to put them in.
Here are some photos from this morning.
Shane
I'm making some progress now on the camembert. I think another day or two and then off to the cold fridge.
The Cambozola is getting rather blue with small smatterings of PC. It is a little wetter than I'd have hoped though. I have patted it down a couple of times with paper towel.
Below are some more photos.
Shane
Looking good, although I would have expected some growth on the cams by now... :-\
I believe it was my fault by getting them too wet in the spraying process. It's the first time I've sprayed them. I've only ever added PC to the milk.
Shane
This morning I've moved the camembert to the cold fridge until they are ready to eat. The Cambozola is making progress, but a little slower. I did spray that cheese later than the camembert to give the PR a head start.
Shane
The camembert are off ripening in the cold fridge still and looking very good. The Cambozola on the other hand is in the cave. I haven't quite got a full covering of PC yet, but I hope I can move it in the next couple of days. There are no ammonia smells so far and it hasn't softened yet. Here are some updated photos of the Cambozola.
Shane
It's getting there! AC4U for perseverance.
Thanks Andy.
Shane
The end result was that the camembert turned out pretty good. I'm still not a huge fan, but my wife was certainly happy. This evening I baked one in an air fryer with rosemary sprigs, honey and chilli flakes. Fresh bread was then dipped in it. It turned out great and was very tasty.
Below are some final photos. I haven't opened the Cambozola yet.
Shane
Looking good, Shane. A Cheese for you efforts. :)
I've got some Cambozola in the aging box also - made by spraying PC and Geo over the pierced wheel containing the P. roqueforti. A lot of the blue color leaked to the outside during draining and it seems like the PC and Geo have taken about twice as long as normal to cover the cheese. But, I think they've finally won the battle! ^-^
Thanks Kern. I'm looking forward to seeing your Cambozola. If I make this cheese again I will do so as a straight camembert batch. Spraying the PC added extra days to the time in the cave and I think this affected how it ripened in the cold fridge. On the outside of the cheese was runny, while the centre was still quite firm. I'll add the PC to the milk. Maybe if I had GC to spray it might have been different, but I'm not sure.
I'll hopefully open the Cambozola on the weekend to take a look inside. I never did get a solid coating on mine. Maybe the round dried out too much??
Shane
Hi Shane,
I held off in commenting - as you are sure to know - there are many ways to the cheese. But a few things that will make the Cams better and a few of those I think you have already discovered. I hope you don't mind a bit of a critique. I might start at a low fat decision - I think I understand why and there are ways to reduce the Lactose sensitivity and still enjoy soft cheeses - I think you already know of it. A Lactase replacement - LACTEEZE. Lactase is an enzyme produced by many organisms. It is located in on the brush border of the small intestine of humans and other mammals. Lactase is essential to the complete digestion of whole milk. Lactase breaks down lactose. Don't know how much it costs but added to the milk 12-24 hours before making cheese will reduce the overall residual Primary lactose in the end product as it is broken down into it's two primary sugars. from wiki: Lactose is a disaccharide (two Sugars) sugar derived from Galactose and Glucose. The great thing about cheese cultures - their first job it the creation of these to primary sugars and then consume them and make lactic acid. Now I not saying that it gets rid of all the lactose but it will greatly reduce the Primary Sugar. If that helps.
The added cream and high fat content in my make is another way of creating a stabilised curd. The issue with the Thermo added is that it never gets into a good temp range by which the necessary pH drop is generated - hence conversion of Lactose.
1. Add both G.C and P.C to the milk I use a ratio 4:1 (P.c to G.c) - well as close any way. As another here mentioned the G.c sets up the outside but raising the pH so that the P.C can quickly get established.
2. The Floc time was good and the Temps look great.
3. I tried with my first ones spraying the P.C. and just didn't do it for me - maybe I was a little heavy handed and just soaked the surface.
4. The cut open picture shows that the resolubalisation process has got too fast - too soon. Now this might have a couple of causes but I think the main one is that the pH of the cheese was too high to start with. The process actually has to go through the 4.7- 4.8 range (help keep the other bugs at bay) through the range to finish almost back into the 6.4 range. By then the P.c has your back covered in keeping the other mold out while supporting the ripening process.
Hope that helps somewhat
-- Mal
Hi Mal,
Thanks for all of your advice. It is all good to know. The purpose of this cheese was not the lactose aspect as it was for my wife. It was actually on her request to stop loading her up with highly fattening cheese. :) It was a compromise.
Unfortunately my cheap pH meter went for a swim and didn't survive it, so at the moment I don't have any monitoring. I'll need to order a recent probe for my good meter. I had been putting it off but now the other one is dead, I'll need to just do it.
Thanks again for sharing your wisdom. It's great to get this help when we're just starting out.
I have a cheddar to post soon which is a bit out of the ordinary. Hopefully I'll get to post the details tomorrow.
Shane