Well after my attempt back in 2013 at making Camembert and blue with not very good results I decided to have another go at making some cheese.
I used un homogenised milk and added a 1/4 teaspoon of a Camembert mesophilic mould blend which also contains the penicillium candida, to the milk once I had heated it up to 32C. But after 90 minutes my PH was still 6.5. Should I have waited longer until it dropped to 6.4? I didn't and added the rennet. Did the floc test and waited 80 minutes before testing for a clean break. The curds seemed to break clean but I had a good layer of whey on top of about 1 inch deep.
Anyway they are resting now for 30 mins before I stir them so hopefully everything is going okay.
Ok well maybe not an inch deep of whey. More like 5-10 mm.
Good luck with your cam. Its one of the cheeses that I make reliably well. Love them!
Thanks past pawn. So should I have let the culture keep working until I had dropped to a ph of 6.4 before adding the rennet or was I correct in just adding it after 90 minutes even though the ph was only 6.5?
Quote from: Shalloy on August 02, 2015, 12:34:40 AM
Thanks past pawn. So should I have let the culture keep working until I had dropped to a ph of 6.4 before adding the rennet or was I correct in just adding it after 90 minutes even though the ph was only 6.5?
In general, keep the culture working until you get the pH you want. Sitting at a mildly warm temperature while slowly acidifying is not going to hurt the milk. Now, letting it sit after renneting, that's different.
Well I got to 6.5 which is very close I suppose. But next time I will wait until I hit a ph of 6.4.
After adding the rennet I did the floc test and let the curds sit for 80 minutes. (The recipe said only 60 minutes)
I then cut the curds and let them sit for 30 minutes. Stirred gently for 3 minutes and let them sit for 15 minutes before stirring again. Stirred them 3 times with a 15 minute rest between each stir before I scooped out most of the whey and levelled them into the hoops.
Last time I mis understood the recipe and only stirred them 3 times with a 3 minute break between each stir then labelled them into hoops.
So what does the longer sitting time of the curds do? Does this expel more whey from the curds so they aren't as moist when put into the hoops?
Longer time before cut means the matrix of the cheese will be stronger, it also means more moisture is trapped. Sitting during the rest of the process, as far as I know, is primarily to keep the curds from shattering during stirring and let them acidify a bit more in the vat. At least that's why I would do it if I were going to do it.
I need to learn everything, sorry.
So does this mean my extra waiting time between stirring the curds is going to make my camemberts dry out too much?
So many different recipes say so many different things. The one I followed said to rest them for 75 minutes only, after adding the culture. But the recipe on this wiki said 90 minutes. I rested for 90.
And I didnt have time to make a starter culture so just added the dried culture direct to the milk.
Then my recipe says stir for 3 minutes at least 3 times. With a 15 min rest between each stir.
The recipe on this forum says cut the curds stir and let sit for 5 mins, stir again rest for another 5 mins then start to transfer to hoops.
the recipe I used said this
cut curds and rest for 30 mins
stir for 3 mins a total of 3 times. last time I made cams I did this 3 times in a row and was told on here that I should have had a 15 min break between stirs so this time i did this..
stir for 3 mins rest for 15
stir for 3 rest for 15
stir for 3 rest for 15 then transfer to hoops.
So my curds rested for a total of 1hr 15 mins after first cutting them. Now Im finding out that is possibly too long. Seems every recipe you read has a completely different process.
here are a couple of photos How do they all look?
Quote from: Shalloy on August 02, 2015, 09:23:29 PM
So does this mean my extra waiting time between stirring the curds is going to make my camemberts dry out too much?
So many different recipes say so many different things. The one I followed said to rest them for 75 minutes only, after adding the culture. But the recipe on this wiki said 90 minutes. I rested for 90.
And I didnt have time to make a starter culture so just added the dried culture direct to the milk.
Then my recipe says stir for 3 minutes at least 3 times. With a 15 min rest between each stir.
The recipe on this forum says cut the curds stir and let sit for 5 mins, stir again rest for another 5 mins then start to transfer to hoops.
the recipe I used said this
cut curds and rest for 30 mins
stir for 3 mins a total of 3 times. last time I made cams I did this 3 times in a row and was told on here that I should have had a 15 min break between stirs so this time i did this..
stir for 3 mins rest for 15
stir for 3 rest for 15
stir for 3 rest for 15 then transfer to hoops.
So my curds rested for a total of 1hr 15 mins after first cutting them. Now Im finding out that is possibly too long. Seems every recipe you read has a completely different process.
Yep. And different recipes will give you slightly different results. If you followed this one, you should get a good result.
When people talk about starter cultures they're usually referring to freeze-dried ones.
The photos look pretty good. Did you salt the sides as well? A bit hard to tell from the picture.
yes I salted the sides too. When I took that photo i had only salted one side at that stage.
When you say ïf you followed this one, which one do you mean exactly? What I actually did? Or the recipe on this site?
Quote from: Shalloy on August 02, 2015, 11:58:18 PM
yes I salted the sides too. When I took that photo i had only salted one side at that stage.
That makes sense. It would be sad if you only salted the top. ^-^
Ok so Im still a bit confused. Is the longer time I left my curds sitting after being cut going to increase the moisture in my cheese or make them drier?
how long do you guys leave them sitting for after cutting and how many times do you stir them?
Quote from: Shalloy on August 03, 2015, 02:48:31 AM
Ok so Im still a bit confused. Is the longer time I left my curds sitting after being cut going to increase the moisture in my cheese or make them drier?
how long do you guys leave them sitting for after cutting and how many times do you stir them?
I don't think sitting longer has a major effect on the moisture level, though it would depend on the temperature, probably. What it'll affect the most is pH.
My cam recipe went as follows
Quote1 ½ gallons whole p/h milk
½ tsp. MM100
¼ tsp. PC powder
[pinch of geo 13]
½ tsp. each CaCl2 and calf rennet
10 tbsp. Kosher salt
Heat to 90º
Inoculate, ripen for 1 ½ hourse.
Add CaCl2 and rennet, aim for 6x floc?
Cut to ¼ inch pieces, sit for 5 minutes
Jiggle/stir to prevent matting for.... [a short period of time?], then ladle off 1/3 of the whey
Add salt and gently stir to incorporate
Ladle into 8-inch [tomme] mold, with cheesecloth since I have no Brie mold?
Let drain for ~2 hours until the cheese is firm enough to flip
Flip every hour for 5 hours, or until it stops draining
Unmold and place in ripening box at ~85% humidity in the refrigerator
Once the cheese is fully covered in mold, remove from box, wrap in cheese paper, and put back in fridge for 5 weeks, or until the center feels soft, flipping fairly often.
[And then the one I'm least sure about...]
Eat.
So mine didn't really stir much at all. What I'm saying is there are many ways to skin a cat. If yours is a recipe from someone you trust to make good cheese, wait it out and see what happens, if it turns out bad in any way try a different recipe.
The last time I made cams I did it similar to you and after stirring the curds for 3 minutes I only let it rest for 5 minutes before stirring a further 2 times and then transferring to the hoops.
I was told on this forum that I should have waited at least 15 minutes between stirring. So thats why I did this time.
So have I run the risk that they may be to acidic then by letting them sit for so long?
Doubt it. I think you'll be alright. My pH was higher than it needed to be. Iiiiif no mold grows and it tastes terrible, well, we can analyze it from there.
Hi !! Welcome home !!
Not to try and confuse here is how I make mine and they turn out nicely and consistently.
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14727.0.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14727.0.html)
There are many ways to Gooey delights, this is but one.
-- Mal
Thanks nce again gents.
Looking at your curds Ozzie mine looked exactly the same so I feel a lot more confident now.
After filling my hoops I turned them an hour later then again an hour after that but had to go to bed as it was 1am and I was stuffed so didn't turn them again until the morning when I salted them.
They are now in a plastic tub sitting on a mesh false bottom and have placed this on a shelf in my garage. Humidity is at 93% and temps here n Melbourne are around 11-14C during the day, so spot on without needing temp control. (In fact this morning they had dropped to 9C so I put the box inside as I had the heater running overnight) they were 13C when I got home..
Besides that Although I have 2 fridges in the garage one has a beer fermenting and the other is full of salami and pancetta ageing so I have no choice.
Tonight when I got home from work I flipped them and the bottom side was wet with visible water on it. Should they still be this wet? I'm not sure if I should take the lid off and let them dry out some more or not??
What do you suggest??
I also think I've over salted them using 1 teaspoon of salt per side and another pinch or two on the edges of the wheel.
Let it dry out.
I give you a cheese for your desire to make perfect cheese ,but.
I think you are sweeting this too much , assuming you do not get late blowing, you ...WILL ....have edible cheese.
Will it be great cheese hard to say . There are many hundreds of types of cheese around the world most come from slight changes in the making , and most taste quite yummy .
One maker here on the forum who's name I forget , even experimented by leaving his cheese out on a shelf on the porch for the whole affinage and I do not think it was cold.
I always tell my friend when they ask how hard is it to make cheese .....
" making cheese is easy , making good cheese is hard and making the same good cheese every time is very hard "
To,steal the line from geico , " Cheese is so easy even a cave man can do it"
And they probably did.
I should add every one of us went through the same worry about our little babies in the beginning , heck what am I saying most of us still worry .
Haha yes your dead right Gregore I am sweating it a little too much. But the first few cheeses I attempted a few years ago were complete disasters and I really want this one to at least be edible.
My mistakes last time were as follows.
1. Added 20 mls of calcium instead of 2 mls because I couldn't fit my syringe into the bottle so poured some out into a small cup and ended up pouring this cup into the cheese by mistake. (I now have smaller syringe)
2. Turned the element on my double boiler up instead of down and the curds hit 50C before I realized. (I now use a temp controller set at 32C)
3. Didnt let the curds sit long enough because my recipe wasn't clear in the instructions.
4. Scraped the blue mould off my cheese as per the recipe, which made them too thin and they dried out. (Since then Ive read on here not to do that)
5. Forgot to add the PC culture to my cams (I sprayed them and they developed a white mould but still ended up too dry and hard in the middle.)
So now that I've learnt from those mistakes last time I want to try and get these to age nicely.
So to dry them out, should I just leave the lid off the box completely and turn them morning and night until I don't see any water on the surface? I must admit I'm very paranoid they are either going to be too dry or end up too wet. There seems to be a fine line between this. Last night I just opened the lid slightly and moved them to the laundry where it was slightly warmer than the garage because the heater was on all night. This morning they were 14C and 88% RH. And when I turned them the mat was wet and the surface had water on it again.
Hi Salting is a bit of an art if dry salting - there is description on how I do it - work for me.. Some like brining them - both methods work.
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13412.0.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13412.0.html)
and 'Toob' of me doing it.
http://youtu.be/JNUDxX_m0Xs (http://youtu.be/JNUDxX_m0Xs)
Draining: I just let mine drain naturally and I leave them overnight before salting anyway and they are quite damp, but I wouldn't worry too much. I wipe out their ripening containers every day until they fuzz over and then every two days after that. You will still and moisture in the container.
-- Mal
Quote1. Added 20 mls of calcium instead of 2 mls because I couldn't fit my syringe into the bottle so poured some out into a small cup and ended up pouring this cup into the cheese by mistake. (I now have smaller syringe)
Won't kill the cheese. Might make the ripening longer, but won't kill it.
Quote2. Turned the element on my double boiler up instead of down and the curds hit 50C before I realized. (I now use a temp controller set at 32C)
Okay, that? More so.
Quote4. Scraped the blue mould off my cheese as per the recipe, which made them too thin and they dried out. (Since then Ive read on here not to do that)
If scraping off the top layer makes them that thin, increase the height.
Quote5. Forgot to add the PC culture to my cams (I sprayed them and they developed a white mould but still ended up too dry and hard in the middle.)
Spraying works just as well. It even is cheaper, as you can keep a spray bottle with geo and pc in it for several years if there is not salt or sugar in there.
QuoteSo now that I've learnt from those mistakes last time I want to try and get these to age nicely.
Wise.
QuoteSo to dry them out, should I just leave the lid off the box completely and turn them morning and night until I don't see any water on the surface? I must admit I'm very paranoid they are either going to be too dry or end up too wet. There seems to be a fine line between this. Last night I just opened the lid slightly and moved them to the laundry where it was slightly warmer than the garage because the heater was on all night. This morning they were 14C and 88% RH. And when I turned them the mat was wet and the surface had water on it again.
I would just pull 'em out and let it dry on the counter during the daytime, and at night if it's not dry yet just crack the lid a little more so it's not quite as humid as necessary.
I suspect that in the past the effect of excessive moisture was more easily controlled by the cheeses being affinaged on wood our little plastic mini caves really are no substitute for a cave and a wood board , but it is the best we can do usually .
. My reblochons some times need a little wipe with a paper towel for the first few days to help them dry off .
I have never made a PC cheese only a geo so I do not know if the paper towel thing will be bad but I would suspect it will not hurt it at all .
In another post else where there is talk about the new book by david Asher , if it is in your budget you might want to look into it as it will help you understand how easy cheese really is and his kefir style starters are way easier to control the ph than DVI
As for whether you used too much salt -- how many gallons did you use to make the 4 cams (I'm assuming 4, based on the pictures). 1 tsp per side sounds potentially high to me, but it all depends on how big the cams are.
As for whether the curds get too acidic -- not to worry: Cams are supposed to get quite acidic in the making stage in order to develop properly. As I understand it (from reading Caldwell's excellent book), the high acid allows some of the calcium (? I think?) to dissolve and leave with the whey. Then the geo begins to grow and reduce the acid levels on the surface; then the PC begins to grow and further reduces the acid levels. Over time, the action of the geo/PC results in the pH rising to relatively high levels (i.e., relatively low acid), working inward from the outside. When the pH rises high enough, the curd changes into the gooey texture of a cam. If the calcium (?) stayed too high, it would hinder this process.
Or something like that. I need to go back and re-read that section ...
Quote from: awakephd on August 05, 2015, 02:39:35 PM
As for whether you used too much salt -- how many gallons did you use to make the 4 cams (I'm assuming 4, based on the pictures). 1 tsp per side sounds potentially high to me, but it all depends on how big the cams are.
As for whether the curds get too acidic -- not to worry: Cams are supposed to get quite acidic in the making stage in order to develop properly. As I understand it (from reading Caldwell's excellent book), the high acid allows some of the calcium (? I think?) to dissolve and leave with the whey. Then the geo begins to grow and reduce the acid levels on the surface; then the PC begins to grow and further reduces the acid levels. Over time, the action of the geo/PC results in the pH rising to relatively high levels (i.e., relatively low acid), working inward from the outside. When the pH rises high enough, the curd changes into the gooey texture of a cam. If the calcium (?) stayed too high, it would hinder this process.
Or something like that. I need to go back and re-read that section ...
As I understand it, calcium phosphate occurs in fairly constant levels according to the pH. If there is more calcium phosphate, there will be a higher pH. Take, for example, Swiss cheeses. Not very much whey is expelled from them, as they go straight from the vat to the mold. This means they have more Calcium phosphate, and a higher pH before pressing and brining. With cheddared cheeses, the cheddaring process releases much more whey, so you salt the curds once it hits the pH you want there. Those cheeses have a lower calcium phosphate content.
With Camemberts, as far as I remember, you start out with a lower pH. This is a nicer environment for the Pc. So it starts growing, and having fun. Then something, I can't quite remember what it is right now, starts getting drawn out from the center. The PC produces ammonia, which gets drawn into the center. Since ammonia is basic, the pH of the cheese increases. At some point, the previously hydrophobic bonds in the cheese start attaching to water, and the cheese gets soft.
Mate- Spot on ! The re-solubilisation occurs as the pH increases - it starts on the outside works in, and the ammonia production and water vapour is caused by the moulds.
-- Mal
I used 7.5 litres of milk which is 1.98 U.S. Gallons so nowhere near 4 gallons. The cheese are around 4 inches diameter and 1.5 inches high and range from 280 grams to 311 grams in weight.
I've been turning them daily and blotting the moisture that appears on the bottom. I've noticed a reduction in the amount of water that appears though..
I kept the lid off the container and had them in the garage at around 10-13C. And 85% RH.
Now that I've kegged my latest brew, (a very nice Rye IPA) I have a fridge spare so have put the container in the fridge at 10C. The humidity has climbed to 95%.
I checked out your toob on salting Ozzie cheese. I thought you had to salt one side and let it rest for awhile but your method seems a lot easier. Ive also purchased the ebook version of that book you suggested Gregore to read on my iPad. Wasn't cheap at $26 but Lots of good information in there.
I'm still paranoid about either keeping these cheeses too wet or too dry. Should I be keeping them out of the fridge with the lid off until I see no visible water on them when I turn them over? As I mentioned the amount I see has reduced considerably but there is still a thin film of water when I turn them.
Thanks for all your help gents.
Just to add since moving them to the fridge at 10C I've noticed a build up of moisture in the container and lid which I never got when they were just sitting in the garage at 12-13C. So Ive opened the lid slghtly.
Yes you should be getting moisture on the inside of the lid small droplets like fine mist is good. If they get too big keep the lid ajar .
glad you got the book I think by the time you are finished reading you will feel much more confident.
It still seems like you are on track with your cheeses , the curds looked good and the timing on all that you have done so far is not off by any factor that would lead to a uneatible cheese .
So put your cheese eating bib on and get your crackers ready .
If it makes you feel any better... I've made several hundred batches of camembert at a local farmstead creamery. They're awesome.
I still haven't made a perfect camembert at home!
The main difference is that I'm working with low-temp pasteurized milk at the dairy, and raw milk here. Same breed of cows. Even after making adjustments to culture amount, I still haven't achieved the same results following the original recipe.
Little things that you wouldn't normally think about can have a huge affect. Sometimes I wonder if a lot of these home-cheese making recipes weren't meant for large batches instead. For example, when working with a 35 gallon batch of cam, there is an incredible amount of pressure on all but the top couple inches of curd. There is no need to rest or stir the curd beyond a 10 minute rest after cutting.
The official camembert molds are designed to drain very effectively. Using the molds I have at home, the same curd never drains properly.
I have to cut the curd smaller and rest/stir/rest for quite a bit to achieve the same final cheese texture.
And that's why every recipe is different....
Also, the idea that you can have a one-size-fits-all recipe for cheese becomes more and more ludicrous the more you learn about it. Just to take an example...
Raw milk does not need lipase added. It has it. Low-temp pasteurized non-homogenized could use some lipase. P/H milk shouldn't really have lipase added, because it can tear into the exposed fatty acids like nobody's business, since the coating was destroyed by homogenization. And the lipase powder commonly marketed is not a great idea to use on anything except hard italian cheeses because it's much more potent than the natural lipases. Adding it to blue cheese is also somewhat unnecessary because, like linens and geo, PR naturally produces a certain amount of lipase.
I'm only on my fourth set of cams, so I am still relatively inexperienced, but I am thinking that you are using too much salt.
For a two-gallon make, made into four camemberts, 1 tsp of salt per side (if I understood you correctly), gives a total of 8 tsps of salt, or 4 tsp / gallon. I make a 2.25 gallon make, made into 3 camemberts, and I salt 3/4 tsp per side, for a total of 4.5 tsp., or 2 tsp / gallon -- and I have felt that that was at the upper end of the range.
Keep in mind not only that I am still very much learning, but also that the only way to really be accurate with the amount of salt is to measure by weight--both of salt and of curds--rather than by volume. Thus, if you are using a coarse salt, your tsp of salt may actually be less than my tsp of "pickling salt." But still ... I doubt that would make up for the 2:1 difference in the volumes we are using.
Of course, if your cams turn out super well, maybe I'll need to start doubling the amount of salt I use ... :)
Well after 7 days they have a nice coating of white mould except for some areas around the edges etc. These areas feel wet to touch so Ive left the lid off the maturation box so they can dry out a bit more.
is this why the mould wont grow on these areas?
@ Shalloy. Just a quick one from the sideline - I would like to suggest that you move these to a lower temperature now that they have a nice covering. If the 15.6 number on the photo is Degrees C I would put them into a fridge at 4-5 Degrees C.
Check this out
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13412.0.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13412.0.html)
-- Mal
Hi Ozzie, They are in the fridge at 11C. I moved them into the kitchen to turn them and it rose to 15C whilst doing so. So I can move them to a cooler temp now? i thought a week was too soon?
I would move them now if that's possible - it will slow the ripening down but it will prevent 'skin slip' - which is the ripening of the outside (and turning runny) and the inside being hard. Lowering the temperature will add a couple of week to the ripening period though will produce a better and more uniform soft cheese. I'll be interested to see the results as they progress.
-- Mal
I just read your post on the malamberts. Very good and detailed post with lots of information. I can drop the fridge they are in to 4C so will do so tonight.
I was going to put my blues in there though at 10C once Ive salted them for a few days but will have to come up with another solution. My other fridge is still full of salami and cured meats so I cant use that.
Or they may even fit on top of my kegs in the kegerator which is set at 4C. So many fridges..But not enough room... :)
So should I be concerned about the edges that aren't getting covered in PC? I had this with some cams I made two years ago and they were too dry in the end. But these areas feel wet.
My RH is around 95% and I get a fine mist of condensation on the lid that I wipe out daily.
I've dropped them to 4C but not sure what RH to keep them at?
Shalloy, my cams are never completely covered in white -- especially around the edges/corners. However, the geo seems to form a complete undercovering, and that too helps with the ripening.
I am a disciple of Mal when it comes to this style of cheese -- following his Malembert make has given me out-of-this-world results. However, I have done one thing differently than Mal for the last two makes -- once I move the cheese to the cold fridge, rather than continuing to use ripening containers, I have used the special cheese ripening paper (I got mine from artisangeek.com).
The primary reason I did this the first time was to save space -- since the cold fridge is the primary refrigerator for the house, my wife insists on putting groceries in it. ::) As discussed in another thread, with the cheeses wrapped in the paper, I have been able to stack them when space was tight, spreading them out when space was available. (Often I arrange them with one cheese propped up on the next -- still saves space, but lets air circulate better.)
Having done this twice now, I can say that I think I like this method better: 1) I think the cheese ripens a bit faster -- 5 weeks rather than 6; 2) the cheese does not require as much attention (to wipe out the moisture from the ripening container, air out the ammonia, etc.); this has meant that I have been able to leave the cheese for a week of vacation, with no harm; 3) in connection with #2, the ammonia seems to be controlled better -- perhaps simply because I don't always remember to attend to the cheese at the right time when it is in the ripening container!
All that said, I don't think the cheese has turned out any better in taste or texture -- whether using the ripening containers or the paper, "Malemberts" have been consistently delicious, and it is ridiculously hard not to eat a whole wheel at one sitting.
And mine as well - sometimes are a bit patchy as well. I wouldn't worry. My lovely wife allows me a shelf for my Cams - I'm Blessed !! BTW if you are using containers to ripen them in then getting a little moisture is a good sign as it means the process is still progressing. I haven't done a volumetric analysis though, it might be worth doing, on the amount of liquid in the container but I'm sure it decreases every time I open the containers (every Second Day). Maybe the decrease is a sign of ripening progression and when it stops - time to eat! Just feeling on this I have no evidence.
-- Mal
Well I'm lucky enough to have 2 fridges in the garage that I use for fermenting beer in and making salami which is another new hobby the wife and I started this year.
I also have a kegerator in the dining room and our standard food fridge. So plenty of fridge space.
So Ive dropped them to 4C how often should I flip them over? Also can you use a weight loss method to tell you when they are ready? I weighed them at the start. I've searched but found nothing on using weight loss to tell you how dry etc they are getting.
Here's an updated photo. I find this is a good place to have a photo log of how they're progressing.
They do feel a bit hard and dry though.
I have no idea on weight loss as a guide to readiness. I just squeeze them gently; they start feeling a bit squishy on the outside ... when they start feeling that way in the middle, it is about time. Keep in mind that readiness is a matter of preference -- I like mine not quite gooey all the way through; others may prefer gooey-er ...
Well they are looking awesome now. Almost completely covered n white mould. Humidity is around 95% temp is 4.5C and I wipe the lid and let them air out and flip them every two days.
Just wondering when I should wrap them?
You can wrap them now - I don't tend to, but that is personal choice only.
A Cheese for you wonderful looking cheeses.
-- Mal
Ok what do you mean you dont tend to? What do you do with yours then?
I thought they had to be wrapped or they would dry out. I have the cheese foil so was going to wrap them and put in my household fridge to make way for more cheese in the cave. Is that okay to do?
Shalloy, there are two options:
1) Wrap in cheese-ripening paper (special paper that lets the cheese breathe -- make sure you get the right side against the cheese).
2) Continue to ripen in a ripening container; wipe the moisture out every day or two. Takes up more room in the fridge, but saves on buying the special paper.
Regardless of which method, they need to be in the cool fridge now!
I have them in my house fridge now still in the container.. (Had to make room in the cheese fridge for 2 lots of blues I've done)
I have paper backed foil that has small holes in it. Is this for cams or for blues?
If I keep them in the container do I still have to sit them on the mesh so they get air around them? Or can I just sit them in the bottom of a normal plastic container? I'm still getting condensation on the lid but just a fine mist, nothing dripping or anything like that?
My ageing container takes a lot of room up in the fridge so if I can sit them in normal Tupperware containers I could at least reclaim some fridge space.
Shalloy, I don't know the answer on the foil, as I have not used that product. Here is what I am using: http://artisangeek.com/microcrystaline-cheese-wrapping-and-ripening-paper/ (http://artisangeek.com/microcrystaline-cheese-wrapping-and-ripening-paper/) -- it does have micro-perforations in the outer plastic layer, but there are also other layers to it ... at least that is what I understand from the description on the web site. In any case, it has worked very well for me.
For the containers in the fridge -- when I have ripened this way, I have used mesh to keep the cheese up off the bottom and allow air. Actually, I went a step further. I got an "egg crate light diffuser ceiling panel" (like this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Plaskolite-4-ft-x-2-ft-Suspended-Light-Ceiling-Panel-1199233A/202025149?MERCH=REC-_-NavPLPHorizontal1_rr-_-NA-_-202025149-_-N (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Plaskolite-4-ft-x-2-ft-Suspended-Light-Ceiling-Panel-1199233A/202025149?MERCH=REC-_-NavPLPHorizontal1_rr-_-NA-_-202025149-_-N)) and cut it to fit the small plastic containers that I used in the fridge. Then I cut a piece of mesh to go on top of that, then the cheese. (Obviously, everything gets sterilized by a run through the dishwasher before use!)
This may be overkill ... but it certainly worked for me. My main reason for changing to the paper has been the ability to save space in the fridge -- the plastic containers were too tall to stack and still fit on the lower shelves of the fridge, so they took up a lot of room.
"A fine mist" sounds just right. Ripen until the cheese gets a bit squishy all the way to the center, then cut and enjoy!
Thanks heaps for that info. I will try and source the wrapping paper here locally otherwise will use a smaller container. They are slightly softer on the edges but still firm in the middle. But theyve only been at 4C for a week now.
@Shalloy
I use the cheese wrap from here and each sheet is large enough for 4 Cams (Std 100mm Dia). They work well and although their postage is a bit steep, I find the range offered quite good - though I'm lucky as they are just down the road from me..
http://greenlivingaustralia.com.au/cheese-wrap-white-pack-of-10 (http://greenlivingaustralia.com.au/cheese-wrap-white-pack-of-10)
Here is a quick photo sequence of how I wrap mine.
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13720.0.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13720.0.html)
As far as ripening containers I use the Decor range and get two per container - see the top of the first picture.
-- Mal
Thanks for that Mal. I will order some of that paper.
Ive seen the containers you use and brought one from Woolies the other day which I have 3 of my blues ageing in at the moment. I need to buy some more though.
Well they are just over 1 month old now and looking great. A full covering of white mould but they don't have any smell like ammonia or a mushroomy smell. Shouldn't they have this sort of smell by now?
I've kept them in their container in the fridge at 4C even though I now have the paper to wrap them in as I didn't need the space in the fridge just yet.
They are fairly soft n the sides and edges but still quite firm in the middle.
And I've noticed that the lid has less moisture on it now after two days where as before the entire lid was covered in a mist of condensation now it's only like a quarter of the lid so I suppose this means they are starting to dry out more.
How many more weeks can I expect them to ripen for?
Shalloy, remind us of the recipe you followed -- especially in terms of how much fat (whole milk? whole milk + cream?) and what sort of culture you used. If this is a high-fat make (the kind that Mal makes, and that I have copied, with delicious results!), then it generally takes 6 weeks or so to ripen. A lower-fat make will ripen more quickly.
But of course, the ultimate guide is your preferences and how the cheese feels -- I generally wait until the cheese is *starting* to get squishy in the middle -- I like them with just a bit in the center that is not yet fully converted to goo. If you like them gooey all the way through, wait a bit longer.
Note that the form factor also plays a role here -- a somewhat thinner cheese will ripen to the middle faster and more evenly than a somewhat thicker one. (Obviously, one can get too thin -- not looking for a pancake here!)
I second Dr. Awake's comments. In addition, have a well-earned Cheese on me.
After wrapping I keep my Cams in the 4C fridge where they will age the slowest. At this time they are "on their own" and not part of the original batch. I take one out about a week before I want to eat it and put it in my 12C cheese cave for about 4-5 days and then take it out and let it finish ripening at room temperature for a day or two. I've found that the rind feels squishy long before the center is ripe so I now error on the side of "over ripening". This is something you'll have to decide for yourself. The cheese will still be good even if you eat it before fully ripe. ;)
@Shalloy
Well don't they look the goods - well done. Now here comes a bit of a contentious comment and some here might disagree but I don't think there is a right or wrong smell maybe just a 'white' or 'strong' smell - bad joke. for example. the last batch I made (was lower in fat and cream) had a very strong smell about them - my wife is my pungency indicator, and ripened in about 6 weeks. I liked them and a friend who just came from France said it was the best he'd tasted.. go figure, he has to come 1/2 way around the globe to get a good Cam.. :) but also, the previous, previous batch which was a very full fat milk and lots of cream took 8-9 weeks to ripen and had hardly any odour about them (mushroomy aside). You might have to sacrifice one to the scientific study of 'Cheesiness'. They really do look good !! A cheese for your perseverance.
-- Mal
The recipe I followed was just 7.5 litres of milk. I used unhomogenised milk from Woolies and had to shake the XXXX out of it to get the cream to dissolve in of which some of it didn't and was lost to the whey.
I used mm100 culture and made a starter 24 hours prior and I also added PC culture to the milk.
There is still a good amount of condensation on the sides of the mine cheese cave so I guess they are still doing there thing.
Wow I now have seven cheeses. Thanks gents.