Well after 24 hours I've pulled my blues out of the hoops and salted them. The recipe says to store them around 15C and 85% humidity for 3 days and turn and salt them everyday.
Then to store them in a humid environment for 30 days at 10C.
But I've learnt that the recipes I use aren't always correct so wondering what you guys do?
I checked them a couple of hours after salting them and they have started to bulge and are still quite wet.
Even though the recipe says to keep them at 15C and 85% humidity I'm thinking that perhaps I should keep them in the kitchen with the lid off the container, where I have the ducted heating running at around 20 c from when I get home after work until 6.30 AM when I go to work. During the day the temps in the house sit around 12-14C.
Would this be a good way to let them dry out quicker?
Shalloy,
The bulging / slumping is not unusual in a blue -- generally they are made with a very soft curd. For that reason, I actually return to the mold or put the mold over the cheese during the salting phase (i.e., apply salt, then put mold over) -- this will keep it from slumping too much.
The salting will draw moisture out of the cheese, so you should expect it to be wet at that point. Eventually the salt is absorbed, and it begins to dry. Note that this drying effect helps the rind to form.
I've only made a couple of blues, so take all of this with a grain of salt ... :) As best I remember, I left my blues on the counter through the salting phase, and then put them in the cave, in a ripening container. However, I took them out for half an hour or an hour each day to dry a bit -- which is to say, yes, it seems like they stay very wet. I wiped out the container and then returned to the cave after the half/hour.
Highly depends on the recipe. A Blue Stilton has much dryer curds, so without mentioning what you're aiming for, it's hard to give advice....
They are not a stilton. Well at least I don't think they are. The recipe just says blue cheese and I got it from the country brewer website. What defines a Stilton versus just a standard blue?
I put them back in the moulds and left them on the kitchen bench where ambient sounds got to 16C in the house today. I've just salted them again and they are still very wet. But the bulging isn't as bad as yesterday. I will leave them out on the bench uncovered until I go to bed tonight to help them dry out more.
You can see the moisture and slight bulging in the photos.
The water is coming out of these like a tap. They also feel very spongy and soft' while the outside is firmer the middle feels soft and sort of rubbery.
I cant work out why expect for maybe it has something to do with using 5 mls of rennet as per recipe instead of 2mls as per the bottle.
I stirred the curds every five minutes for an hour as per the recipe and when the wife ladled them into the hoops I pushed them down gently with my fingers so they filled the hoops properly. The curds felt fine at the time. Were soft and not chewy or rubbery or anything like that.
But they havent reduced in size nowhere near as much as my cams did. They are still over 2 inches high.'
I ended up breaking one open whilst squeezing it and the curds werent all a solid mass but more like ricotta cheese. so I have put it back into the mold to hopefully get it to fuse back together again.
Any ideas whats going on here? Thinking I should dump them and start again.
Bump...anyone? I really need some advice from you experts on this. I e done some searching but can't find anything that describes my problem.
When I squeeze them I can here moisture moving around inside. They are still very wet.
Quote from: Shalloy on August 11, 2015, 08:14:31 AM
The water is coming out of these like a tap. They also feel very spongy and soft' while the outside is firmer the middle feels soft and sort of rubbery.
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It's good that they feel spongy and rubbery. It indicates lots of air pockets for blue to grow.
I cant work out why expect for maybe it has something to do with using 5 mls of rennet as per recipe instead of 2mls as per the bottle.
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I stirred the curds every five minutes for an hour as per the recipe and when the wife ladled them into the hoops I pushed them down gently with my fingers so they filled the hoops properly.
I suggest you never push curds down in a blue cheese. It's squeezes out the air pockets.
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The curds felt fine at the time. Were soft and not chewy or rubbery or anything like that.
But they havent reduced in size nowhere near as much as my cams did. They are still over 2 inches high.'
Could be an indication of not enough acidity being developed before renetting. But with out any measurements of pH it's difficult to say.
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I ended up breaking one open whilst squeezing it and the curds werent all a solid mass but more like ricotta cheese. so I have put it back into the mold to hopefully get it to fuse back together again.
The ricotta look is what you are chasing.
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Any ideas whats going on here? Thinking I should dump them and start again.
I did take ph measurements.
It was 6.5 when I added the rennet.
It was 6.35 after stirring the curds for the first time
But then 6.38 after 1 hour of stirring the curds every five minutes for 60 minutes. Which didn't make sense.
I have a good ph meter which I calibrate regularly.
How do those figures look? I made blues before and they were nowhere near as rubbery as these. They were more solid with a creamy solid interior. These are like a wet rubber ball that you can hear water inside move around when you squeeze them.
But your post indicates they might be okay? Or not?
Shalloy, not answering sometimes means we just don't know, and are afraid to venture a guess!
But since you ask, I'll venture a guess: I'm guessing it is, indeed, caused by too much rennet. Or at least, that makes as much sense as anything else I can think of ...
I will also venture a guess , as I am still on my first few blues .
How much salt did the recipe call for ? If it is on the low side of a blue cheese I would be inclined to add a little more salt up the the max for a blue to pull out more water.
I expect that they will weep water for some days to come , just try to keep on top of it , they need to be only slightly wet not puddles on top of them .
Because they are wetter than expected they will probably ripen fastrer than the recipe calls for.
Thanks for the replies. I used 2 tablespoons of salt and mixed this in with the curds. They do only really have puddles of water on top. But the tops of the cheese are very concave and the sides are bulging. They certainly dont have the same texture of other cheese Ive made and Im going to bin them and have another go.
I eventually found a website that mentioned cheese like rubber can be a result of too much rennet so Im giving up on these and starting again.
Blues are typically salted while in the curd stage and not after taking them out of the mold. I suspect you are making a cheese that will be very, if not too, salty. Let them dry out, then put them into your cave and air outside of the cave for about 1 hour a day to form a nice rind.
Quote from: Al Lewis on August 12, 2015, 10:13:49 PM
Blues are typically salted while in the curd stage and not after taking them out of the mold. I suspect you are making a cheese that will be very, if not too, salty. Let them dry out, then put them into your cave and air outside of the cave for about 1 hour a day to form a nice rind.
So the fact that they are like sponge rubber wont have an effect on the final cheese? Surely I cant save them. When I squeeze them I can hear water inside like when you squeeze sponge rubber.
I would say calm down and continue aging and see what happens :). That is how we learn. If you throw it out now, you won't know what the result will be good or bad. Just my $0.02.
Susan
How long did the rennet take for a clean break / curd cutting ?
Five minutes after adding the rennet I put the bowl in to start spinning for the floc test and it didn't spin at all. So I used 5 as my multiplier x 6 = 30 mins. But I left it for 45 mins as per the recipe.
I must admit they do seem a bit better tonight so I've spiked them and put them in the fridge at 10C.
I'm calming down soseattle..lol
You reAlly should trust the floc x number , it is very accurate . If you are able to pierce them and they do not weep , then they will probably be fine .
But remember the extra 15 minutes of rennet set may have added extra moisture ( which will mean faster ripening)
but not always , some times the extra set causes the cut edges to be jagged and allows fat and whey to leak from curd faster than it should.
And never throw a cheese out until there is no doubt that it can not be eaten. The cheese world is full of happy accidents.
They typically contain moisture. You may have a bit too much but you should still be okay. Just quit salting them and do as I described in my earlier post. The blue should show up after five days outside of the cave. Turn them over ever day. You may be surprised.
Quote from: Al Lewis on August 13, 2015, 03:12:26 PM
They typically contain moisture. You may have a bit too much but you should still be okay. Just quit salting them and do as I described in my earlier post. The blue should show up after five days outside of the cave. Turn them over ever day. You may be surprised.
So I shouldnt have them in the cave yet? Ive put them in at 10C and around 90% humidity. When I spiked them no moisture leaked out but they did sort of crumble and break apart a little bit on the surface as I pulled the skewer out. The bits that came out tasted okay and not rubbery.
Is it okay to keep the one I broke apart in the mould for a few weeks in the hope that it fuses back together?
@ Gregore...Yeah I suppose I should have cut the curds at 30 minutes and next time I will follow the floc multiplier times.
Thanks aonce again gents.
I have never had to go more than 5 minutes past the final flock number ,
I start to look when the timer goes off and when I see the curd just start to pull away from the edge of the pot and or a little whey above the curd I know it is cut time.
I'm glad I didn't give up on these. They are just starting to show the slightest hint of blue mould growing.
And I still have the second batch that I've been salting for 3 days and letting dry out a bit in the laundry before I move into the cave with my first lot.
I'm getting excited, hopefully my cheese will finally be edible for once.
I'm getting a nice blue mould developing on these but I'm concerned they might be drying out too much.
The RH is around 85-90% and I've kept the lid slightly ajar but they feel dry to touch.
Shouldn't they feel slightly damp or sticky to touch?
Last time I made blues they dried out too much and ended up as hockey pucks. But it was due to the fact that my recipe said to scrape all the blue mould off after 30 days. I did this and they ended up very thin, around 3/4 of an inch. These Are a lot thicker and I'm not going to scrape the mould this time either.
Today I put some wet paper towel in the container and have fitted the lid on tight.
This is the hardest part of cheese making I think. Trying to work out if they are too dry or too wet.
Quote from: Shalloy on August 22, 2015, 07:19:37 AM
The RH is around 85-90% and I've kept the lid slightly ajar but they feel dry to touch.
I would err on the high side: 90 to 95%. You should be seeing some condensation on the inside surfaces of your minicave if you have enough humidity. When I do blues I don't "snap" the lid but I do set it on square and wipe condensate every couple of days of so.
Hi... I'm no raging expert on Blues - or any really :) - here is how I make my blues. I have only made two and both have been an experience to make.
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14026.0.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14026.0.html)
I wouldn't be too worried about the rennet issue, nor the excess moisture. They will drain eventually. The thing I would watch is that they get plenty of air as the Pr needs oxygen to do it's work. Also, in about 3 week I would pierce the same holes again. Now, without the benefit of xray specs and the squishiness you mentioned earlier, you might find that there are not too many 'caves' inside as the paste will settle over time. Keeping the airways open will help the PR but don't be too surprised if there ends up being only a little blue. And there is nothing wrong with a creamy blue :)
Bits falling off - happens - and I again wouldn't be too alarmed.
A cheese for you perseverance
-- Mal
Thanks gents, I will follow the advice and keep the RH up with the lids loosely on top. I will spike them again in 3 weeks time too.
When you say they need plenty of air is 3 of them too much in those red containers like you use Mal? I think I read a post of yours where you said you only had 2 in there but I can't recall if they were blues or cams.
I have the vent open and I turn them and let them air out for 30 minutes every 2 days.
sounds good.
I need to use one of my brew fridges so I can ferment a beer for our clubs Oktoberfest competition. But currently I have these blues in one and salami and cured meats in the other.
I was just wondering if I could possibly store my blue cheese in the household fridge at around 6-8C for a month?
Will that pose any problems?
It'll ripen a lot slower.
Quote from: Stinky on August 27, 2015, 12:47:41 AM
It'll ripen a lot slower.
But Im assuming thats not a problem at all if they ripen slower?
updated photo for my logs. here it is now developing some nice blue within the gaps. this is the second lot I made so only 2.5 weeks old.
Sit them out at room temp for about an hour a day and you will get a nice rind.
Quote from: Shalloy on August 27, 2015, 02:15:39 AM
Quote from: Stinky on August 27, 2015, 12:47:41 AM
It'll ripen a lot slower.
But Im assuming thats not a problem at all if they ripen slower?
It'll be hard to tell when they're ripe.
But not really a big problem, no. Per se.
I was able to move my salami shelf down enough to sit the containers of cheese on top so they are sitting at 13C whilst I ferment my beer. They are developing a nice blue exterior and I poked them again last night.
On the right is the first batch I made and on the left is the batch I made a week later. I tasted the cheese that came out with the skewer. The second lot are a lot firmer with more resistance from the skewer but the inside tasted nice and creamy. Not to dry on both of them.
There is still a nice fine mist of condensation on the lids everyday so I'm assuming the humidity is okay.
Yes, the fine mist on the lids is a good sign. You're well on your way to blue heaven!
Yesterday I opened my fridge to give my salami some air line I do every morning before going to work. But I forgot to close it again. When I got home from work that night the fridge was running flat out and the temperature was at 16C. I took my blues out and two of them looked like they had sort of slumped in the middle. Thus is the first batch I did where I mentioned they had felt spongy from day one. It's like the centre has collapsed in pushing the outsides out.
Any ideas why thus has happened?
Should I be worried?
I wouldn't be too worried as I mature my Blues at 12 Degrees C for 2-3 months. Just keep an eye on them over-ripening. just get them back down to your 10-12 degC and you should be fine. Blue smells are going to increase from here on in anyway. I wouldn't be too concerned - have a look how mine look as they ripen and I can attest that every single piece is edible :)
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14026.0.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14026.0.html)
Well I'm not sure if these are going okay or not.
The first batch is covered well with mould but today I turned them over and one of them had a wet surface like water had started seeping out. The rippled effect is what my first lot of blues looked like that I made a few years back but they were Completly covered with this ripple effect. Is this skin slip perhaps? They are still very spongey like a sponge cake. It's as if they are hollow inside. Yet with this batch I actually pushed the curds down into the moulds to compress them and help them expel whey and firm up.
The second lot although only a week younger have a lot of blue inside the cracks etc, but don't seem to be getting as much blue mould on the surface like the first lot did. And instead are developing a yellowish sort of colour. They are sticky to touch so I assume the humidity is good and they haven't dried out.
Is this yellow geo?
What are your thoughts?
Though I have not. Seen anything like this happen before , am I seeing a creamy looking goo also on the bottom near the holes as well as moisture ?
Based on this, if I had to hazard a guess I would say that some of the paste has become gooiey enough to run out the holes
It might be a sign that it is ready to eat. Do you have anything you can get a core sample with ? A heavy walled straw might even work in a pinch .
I broke a tiny piece off near the edges and it was soft and gooey inside like camembert. I thought that it needs to be firmer and harder? They are only 5 weeks old.
What would have caused it to go like this? Could it be the original problem where I used double the amount of rennet that's causing this?
Also what are your thoughts on the second batch with no blue mould? Do they look okay?
@Shalloy,
Not being there is a bit difficult to diagnose. But just from the images I would suggest the following.
1. if you are worried about them ripening to fast - cool them down and treat them like a camembert.
2. if you are worried about the soft stuff coming out, gently scrap it off, re-pierce to open up the air passages.
3. Drop your humidity and let them dry out a bit.
and if you are really, really worried - sacrifice one to the scientific process and cut one open and taste it - I think you'll be surprised :)
Can't say about the rennet but I think the thing here is if they are not emitting an 'Off' smell - and that's a subjective statement - I wouldn't panic !! You've seen some of mine and they look really gruesome but taste amazing. I hope you kept notes because you may have just made a great cheese.
Keep on Truckin' :)
-- Mal
So I just went back and retread the start of this thread and these are the cheeses that had a lot of moisture in them when made , usually a cheese that is more moist will ripen faster than a dryer cheese .
I think that the cheese that is leaking is at least ripe near the edges and may be ripe and creamy all the way to the center .
I just made my first blue and it was supposed to be a runny creamy blue , I posted picks here recently
I would do what mal suggested and cut the runny one open for a taste , if you cut straight across you can put the 2 halves back together again if it needs more ripening
Tonight I checked them again and where I had broken a tiny piece off near the edge it had actually leaked out runny yellow goo into the bottom of the ageing container.
Like a very ripe and warm camembert. And the cheese had collapsed even more on this side.
So does this mean they are ripe and ready to eat? I think I will put them in my house fridge at 4C and check them after the weekend.
It's our fifth anniversary so I'm taking Friday off work and taking the missus on a romantic weekend away to Yarrawonga so the blues will have to wait for now.
Sounds done to me , cut it , taste it
Happy anniversary
Blues, with the exception of cambozola, should not be runny. You may want to cut your losses and start over.
So could the extra rennet I used be the cause of this runny cheese? Or is it possibly another factor?
Don't want to make the same mistake twice.
At least batch 2 is still looking okay though.
@ Gregore.. Thank you. Going to be a top weekend here. Spring has sprung 20C today. 21C on Saturday and 24C on Sunday. Staying in a resort that has balcony a that looks out over the lake so it should be awesome.
Oooohh I know the lake - used to live in Barooga . I'm jealous - have a great weekend and remember it's only cheese.. :) when you get back review your notes and have a look at some of Al's entries - He Da King - O'blues :) and review those link I sent of mine to get a 'Stilton' like Blue cheese.
Don't stress. It took me 7 abortive attempts to get my 'Malemberts' to a point I was happy with them.. :)
-- Mal
Okay after a review of all the things that were different from what you intended to make
5ml of rennet instead of 2ml
5 minutes to floc x 6 multiplier =30 minutes you left it 45 minutes
Stir every 5 minutes for 1 hr as per recipe
All of this is closer to what I did for my soft blue cheese , and it took 30 days or so to ripen ,
Sounds like you made a cambozola
I thought a cambozola was made using PC culture and penicillium Roquefort??
Anyway they taste good so be put them in my fridge at 4C to consume them.
My other blues made a week later seem to be doing better. A lot firmer and although not much mould on the surface they seem to have plenty inside. Should I also put these in my fridge at 4-6C to slow them down a bit too?
Yes my guess would be to slow those also,
Picks please of the cut cheese.
You have geo on the surface of your cheese ,that is what causes the wrinkle surface . Wild ones as I do not remember you adding it
So basically a cambozola with geo instead of pc
Well after a fantastic weekend away with the missus, and some awesome early spring sunshine (21C Friday, 24C Saturday and 27C Sunday) I came back to what I thought was some blues gone bad. But then I cut one open and I only have3 words to say.
OH MY GOD.
It seems it was only the edges that had gone gooey whilst the centre is perfect, and check out those blue veins. Tasted awesome, a little salty which I knew a post further back on this thread said not to use so much so I won't next time. We brought some blue cheese on our trip away and this is ten times better, even if I do say so myself.
Before I accept this cheese I'd just like to thanks all the fine folks on here for their ongoing support and advice thoughout the journey I couldn't have done it without you. Farmers own for providing the unhomogenised milk and last but not least my wife, for being my wife.. ;)
If it tastes half as good as it looks, then it must be excellent indeed! AC4U.
A cheese 4 you for hanging in there and not throwing it out before the taste test.
Looks just like I expected , the second one should be in thr fridge all wrapped up and it will very slowly get gooey towards the center . Assuming it is not eaten before then.
Ah the wife .... The supportive, willing and sometimes unexpected experimental taster of our hobby. I too have a most supportive and understanding lovely wife who has tasted them all.. just love her all the more for it.
Congrats on the Blue and isn't is amazing when you realise the range of difference between this and the poor offerings by the supermarkets, even imported supposed Classic cheeses are sometimes lacking and not really worth the hype. For example I recently tried a Blue cheese of French origin and long pedigree and while is was nice, it was certainly not worth the dollars on the price tag.
A cheese for you and now a challenge - review your notes and do it again !!
-- Mal