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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Cheddared (Normally Stacked & Milled) => Topic started by: GntlKnigt1 on October 14, 2015, 01:19:22 PM

Title: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: GntlKnigt1 on October 14, 2015, 01:19:22 PM
I am an American from Chicago living in the Netherlands. Can't find cheddar here, so I bring back a brick of Cabot (or similar brand) every trip back to USA.  I ultimately decided to attempt to make my own cheddar at home (HA.  Brilliant idea....)

So, the research began.  Watched maybe a dozen or more YouTube videos (including Mad Millie one), read a dozen sites on it, and figured I was well researched enough to make the attempt. (Should have known better.... my first batch of mead all those years ago was a disaster as well... barely drinkable 11 years later). Bought a "Mad Millie" Top up Kit, a cheese mold, cheesecloth etc, and began following the Mad Millie method. Started with 6 liters of biological (organic) milk, with a pint of heavy cream as a kicker. Added the calcium chloride, warmed it, added the dissolved rennin and the mesophilic culture. However, at curd cutting time, things didn't seem to be set as well as it should.  I put the pot in a sink of hot water to try to warm it enough, which seemed to help some, but I still didn't think it was right.  Wrong milk?  Old rennin?  bad culture?  I still don't know, which makes me reluctant to try again. I dumped off the whey, added salt, put it in the mold, and then my press (adapted my fruit press with a bathroom scale beneath it). It was wet and runny, even after using the recommended amounts of pressure.  I ultimately just cranked it down to like 100 lbs for 2 days.  Then took it out, and it didn't cohere.  Turned into a crumbly mess on the counter.  I wrapped it in cheesecloth and have had it hanging in the kitchen for about a week or more now.  Has a kind of sticky, slippery residue on cheesecloth now, but it's pretty dry. 

Am really ready to throw it out, but don't want to waste time, effort and $ on another batch until I know what happened here.  Any suggestions or ideas are welcomed.

(//)
(//)


Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: Gregore on October 14, 2015, 02:26:30 PM
I am not a cheddar maker so I can only help up to that point in the make ,

If you used tablet rennet from the kit  , I think it lasts a long time so that can be put aside for now

That leaves the milk,  did you use ultra pasteurized milk? Not sure they even have it there

For sure your fat came out and into the whey as I can see it in the first pic  in the pot , was that after stirring ?

Which makes me think inadequate renneting  ( either time or milk problem)

If so you might have stirred to soon  , before complete setting of the curd

Ask here for a floc time for  cheddar cheese and use it  next time it should help ( ask about floc numbers if you do not understand)

I like to see a little clear whey floating on top of the curd before I cut . 

With pasteurized milk the curd can be rather fragile , so after cutting maybe try a little longer rest before stirring .
Also stir less at first  then  pick up the pace if the whey stays mostly clear , green , yellow color ( white whey is bad, as that is your fats )

I have found with soft curd stir with your hand at first

And from what I see in the final pic is that maybe it might have all come together with more pressure  in the press

Most cheeses when you put the curds into the mold the curds are still ph high enough to chemically bond , but with cheddar  the farther you are past that point the more brute force it takes

Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: GntlKnigt1 on October 14, 2015, 02:50:31 PM
Thanks for the reply Gregore.

Yes, that was after I had stirred it some.  Here is the pic when I cut it...
(//)

I would have to check the milk container in store next time I am there to see about the ultra pasteurized issue.  I also see that it is vegetable rennin, which I read somewhere takes longer than animal rennin.

I couldn't begin to cut it into slices to "cheddar" it... it was a gooey mass.

Any advice on the chunk I have hanging in cheesecloth?  It's finally pretty dry, but is starting to smell a bit funky.  Not as bad as limburger (which probably originated here in Limburg province near Maastricht) but it does have a smell.

As the French might say..... I think I have created "fromage garbage"
Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on October 14, 2015, 04:18:05 PM
"Organic" milk is often ultra-pasteurized and a really poor choice for making cheese. Look for non-homogenized "cream line" milk if you can find it. The added cream was unnecessary and was probably ultra-pasteurized as well (commercial cream usually is). The rennet (rennin) does go bad and could be another source of problems. Try searching the forum on flocculation for some good advise.
Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: GntlKnigt1 on October 14, 2015, 07:41:17 PM
Okay, thanks Sailor.  Will try non-biological non-homogenized (if I can find it) milk next time, skip the cream, and I found this for flocculation.
http://homemadecheese.org/flocculation-method/ (http://homemadecheese.org/flocculation-method/)

Thanks.
Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: OzzieCheese on October 15, 2015, 04:06:05 AM
Hi ... Don't give up... :)   Here is how I make Cheddar.
Getting good milk from the supermarkets - even in Australia - is a hit and miss exercise. As Sailor suggests unless you know from the source - "Organic" milk is Ultra - Pasteurised to extend its shelf life because it usually more expensive and shop keepers don't like to have to throw it at the use by date - Hardly Organic by the time you get it. Dead more like it.. :)
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14889.0.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14889.0.html)
I don't know how the milk is treated in the US but non-homogenised (Cream-Line) milk tends to be treated a little kinder and usually makes a better cheese.  Pasteurised and Homogenised not so much... from my experience any way.

But please do try with better milk. You will not regret it.  Another Cheese you might like to try is Caerphilly - there are plenty of entries here. Look for entries by Jeff Hamm - he da "Caerphilly" King.

Hope that helped

-- Mal
     

Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: Gregore on October 15, 2015, 04:26:41 AM
I suspect the slipperiness is geo.

Have you tasted it to see if it tastes okay ?

I would be inclined to turn it into a cheese spread  add some  white wine, herbs  and toss it in the food processor
Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: GntlKnigt1 on October 15, 2015, 08:07:19 AM
Some good ideas there...haven't really tasted it since I wrapped it and hung it in the kitchen, but perhaps I will. 

Meanwhile, some cheesy humor....
(//)

Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on October 15, 2015, 02:30:38 PM
Quote from: GntlKnigt1 on October 14, 2015, 07:41:17 PM
Okay, thanks Sailor.  Will try non-biological non-homogenized (if I can find it) milk next time, skip the cream, and I found this for flocculation. http://homemadecheese.org/flocculation-method/ (http://homemadecheese.org/flocculation-method/)

That's a nice article but you should still search the forum. There are a lot of good discussions.
Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: GntlKnigt1 on October 15, 2015, 03:50:55 PM
Well, I am familiar with the term "flocculation" from my mead/wine making, although with cheese, it's a bit different apparently.  The article indicates Flocculation is a scientific term which essentially means particles coming out of suspension and forming a solid – in the cheese maker's case, which means casein proteins coming out of suspension in the milk and forming curds.

I think the culprit is the milk I used, although I need my Dutch translator (wife) to be sure.  While there is plenty to learn, most of the results I found mention flocculation in passing rather than giving an in depth discussion of it (which is what I would really need). Have to learn to walk before I can run. 

So far, can't find anything other than maybe buttermilk and goats milk in the stores that might be suitable,
Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: OzzieCheese on October 16, 2015, 03:34:10 AM
Oh a goats milk Cheddar is a thing of beauty ! I'd give that a go :). 
The step that makes or breaks a good Cheddar is the 'Texturing' before you mill and salt before pressing.  The slabs should get to a pH of 5.3-5.2 and have the texture of cooked Chicken breast.  the steps basically are
1.warm milk 32 Deg C
2.if using Pasteurised milk add Calcium Chloide
3.Ripen for 30 minutes.
4.add rennet
5.cut at 45 minutes 1/2inch
6. heat slowly over 30 minutes stirring gently to 38 Deg C
7. Stir for 60 minutes at 38DegC
8. drain in Colander.
9. Texture the curds - and see my posts on that - 38 DegC. usually 1 to 2 hours depending on the cultures used.
10. Mill the curds and add salt 2% by weight.
11. Press cheese
12. dry
13. Wax, vac bag, leave natural or cloth bandage - look after for 6-9 months - I like 12.
14. Eat cheese.

Check my posts, or the many other here for the details on each of the steps.  Once you do a few times it become second nature.

Hope the helps

-- Mal   

Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: OzzieCheese on October 16, 2015, 03:38:14 AM
This might help also.

https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13984.0.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13984.0.html)

-- Mal
Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on October 16, 2015, 12:55:00 PM
FYI - in the USA, almost all store bought goats milk is ultra-pasteurized.
Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: Al Lewis on October 16, 2015, 01:36:48 PM
I picked up some to do some halloumi from Trader Joes that wasn't ultra-pasteurized.  Never seen any goats milk anywhere else.  It was from Summerhill Farms.  https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14551.0;attach=36113;image (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14551.0;attach=36113;image)
Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: GntlKnigt1 on October 16, 2015, 09:10:07 PM
Thanks Ozzie...found a place that might have non homogenized milk. Will stop by tomorrow.

Sailor, I am in Netherlands....so, whole different spectrum of availability. Will take a look at those links though.
Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: GntlKnigt1 on October 17, 2015, 02:50:24 PM
Found a place I can get some non homogenized whole milk if we order 3 days in advance. First effort, which was still hanging in kitchen, was getting seriously odiferous, and hit file 13.
Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: olikli on October 17, 2015, 06:06:03 PM
Quote from: OzzieCheese on October 15, 2015, 04:06:05 AM
Hi ... Don't give up... :)   Here is how I make Cheddar.
Getting good milk from the supermarkets - even in Australia - is a hit and miss exercise. As Sailor suggests unless you know from the source - "Organic" milk is Ultra - Pasteurised to extend its shelf life because it usually more expensive and shop keepers don't like to have to throw it at the use by date - Hardly Organic by the time you get it. Dead more like it.. :)   

Since the OP is located in the Netherlands, let me chime in here from a European perspective. It may well be that in USA, Australia or whereever organic milk is pasteurized to death (=UHT). This is not necessarily the case in Europe. EU labelling law is pretty strict, and as long as it only says "pasteurized"  the milk should be fine. Just avoid anything that promises longer shelf life ("langer houdbaar"). There is also the "traditionally made" moniker that means it's not been tampered with beyond standard pasteurization. And if possible use non-homogenized milk, but most organic milk in the EU is non-homogenized anyway. In short: Read the label carefully.
Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: GntlKnigt1 on October 17, 2015, 09:03:26 PM
Its called Demeter brand here olikli
Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: olikli on October 18, 2015, 06:31:12 AM
Demeter have pretty much the strictest stantards for organic milk, the German website says they actually forbid homogenization because it alters the structure of the milk. From the perspective ofcheese making it is pretty much the best milk you can buy in a shop.
Title: Re: Cheddar disaster - first batch
Post by: Hansadutta on October 23, 2015, 03:23:11 PM
Hi, I am from the netherlands and it is not very difficult to find suitable milk. It is available in every supermarket. Just look for the chilled "gepasteuriseerde volle melk". With CaCl it should work fine.
I tried a supermarket goat milk once but this is not suitable. It sais "hoog ge­pas­teu­ri­seerd". As far as I know this means that it has been pasturised at 85 C.